The Bible tells us Satan, the serpent, is subtil, often saying things that sound logical and rational at first glance, but then a closer look at what he says will reveal he’s really lying. Those who unknowingly or knowingly follow him are the same way. So it is with skeptics who hate the fact that the Bible proves itself by predicting events that later come to pass, so they make claims that the Bible has failed prophecies. Here are three examples of their claims:
Tyre wasn’t destroyed as predicted
In Ezekiel 26:4-14, God told the city of Tyre that they would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. God haters claim this never happened because after laying siege to Tyre for 13 years, Nebuchadnezzar gave up and returned to Babylon, leaving Tyre standing. Alexander the Great, they say, was the one who really destroyed it. They will also point out that Tyre is still around today when Ezekiel writes the city would never be rebuilt.
Such skeptics have not examined all of the facts. The ancient city of Tyre was, in fact, leveled by Nebuchadnezzar. Tyre had two territories–one on the mainland and the other on an island off its coast. The main city of Tyre was on the coastal mainland of Lebanon. When Nebuchadnezzar built his bulwarks to destroy the city, the survivors fled to the island. They were only able to get Nebuchadnezzar to stop the siege of the island by agreeing to pay him a tribute, or tax.
Years later, when Alexander the Great attacked the island, he used the ruins of the mainland city of Tyre to build a causeway to the island by throwing the ruins of Tyre into the sea. The island city was later rebuilt, but the mainland ancient city of Tyre remains in ruins to this day and is used as a place where fishermen clean their nets, just as predicted in Ezekiel. (Source: Illustrated Dictionary of the Bible. Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1986, pages 1077-78.)
Egypt wasn’t desolate for 40 years as predicted
Jeremiah 42, 43, and 46 and Ezekiel 29 and 30 speak of Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar defeating the Egyptians, who would be exiled for 40 years. But the skeptics claim this didn’t happen. They’re lying. Here’s how we know.
Ezekiel’s prophecies give us a proper timeline because he refers to his prophecies according to what year of exile the Israelites were in compared to what year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. This tells us that Ezekiel’s prophecy regarding Nebuchadnezzar’s defeat of Egypt and Egypt’s exile took place in 590 BC. Ancient historical records in clay tablet form of the Babylonian kings were discovered in the 19th century. One of them is called the Nebuchadnezzar Inscription and gives the date of this king’s 37th year as the year he battled against Egypt, which would be 588 BC. Forty years after this, as recorded in the clay tablet annals of the Babylonian kings, Nebuchadnezzar’s son, the final king of Babylon who co-reigned with his son Belshazzar, makes a treaty with the exiled pharaoh of Egypt which allows them to return to their African nation. This would be in 548 BC.
So secular history matches what the Bible predicts here and the skeptics are avoiding the facts.
Israel doesn’t live in peace with its neighbors as predicted
Skeptics point out Ezekiel 28:24-26 as a failed Bible prophecy since it predicts Israel will live in peace without worrying about enemy nations surrounding it. What they don’t understand is that this prophecy is for the future Millenial period when Christ will reign with his saints from Jerusalem after he destroys the armies of the nations who unite against Israel on the day of Armageddon (Megiddo) at the end of the future tribulation period.
———-
When God-hating skeptics make attempts to slam the Bible with accusations that its prophecies have failed, it’s good to keep in mind four things:
- Some prophecies are conditional and can only be fulfilled when the person that God prophesies over fulfills their end of the bargain. Such prophecies are based on free will and God does not force them to happen. They speak of what God wishes or desires to have happen, not what he makes happen.
- We don’t know everything there is to know about the history of ancient civilizations. There are archaeological discoveries buried in the soils and sands of time that have not been discovered yet, so much of human history still has unanswered questions, including some history mentioned in Bible prophecies.
- Many prophecies in the Bible are still for future times. The prophecies were meant to cover occurrences up to the time when God will establish his heavenly throne on earth after he makes new heavens and a new earth and rids the world of unbelievers.
- There are thousands of prophecies already proven to be fulfilled that provide enough evidence to show that the Bible speaks the truth when it prophesies, so skeptics don’t have any genuine excuse for their unbelief.
For more amazing facts about the Bible that reveal its accuracy and foreknowledge, visit “101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge” that are mentioned in the Bible.
Harry A. Gaylord
sunandshield.wordpress.com 
My,My Harry,one can see how you hate atheist’s agnostics and skeptics and all we ask for from apologetics is the truth.Do you really think Ezekiel in chapter 4 lay on his left side for 390 days and on his right side for 40 days?If he did he had bed sores,The prophecies youmention in the above artcle was written after the fact,just like Daniel is written after the fact about Alexander the Great and the 4 generals.And the supposed prophecies Christianity claims Jesus fulfilled were never Messiah prophecies to begin with,verses and lines are pulled out of context with surrounding verses and made to seem prophecy fulfilled.Why don’;t you list the prophecies in the Bible that were never fulfilled there are dozens of them.It amazes me how apologetics like yourself lie and twist history to try and make your Bible inerrant,infallible and god inspired.
Your non-thinking theories to get around them are actually laughable to any thinking person.Genesis 2:17 is a good example of how you guys twist the Bible and or history,verse 17 says that god says “in the day(not some other day)that thou eatest of the Tree of Knowledge thou shalt surely die”well Adam didn’t die(nor Eve)the day they ate the fruit Gen.5:5 says Adam lived to be 930 years old,so idiots like you and other apologetics must twist and squirm like a snake and think of some way to get around what it actually says.How many animals went on Noah’s ark by two’s or seven?Again apologetics must think up a lie to get around that also and it’s the same way all over your Bible,but yet idiots like you will claim there are no contradictions in your Bible.And idiots like you are still 2000 years later waiting for your end time supposed prophecies to be fulfilled.You better hope Nuclear war never happens because there will be no Jesus to return and save you,you will die right along side the unbelievers.
In Real Truth,
Jay Osborne
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@Jay,
[one can see how you hate atheist’s agnostics and skeptics]
No, I don’t hate anyone. We’re all created in God’s image & Jesus died for all of us, even though most people will end up lost for eternity. The real reason you want me to hate people like you so badly is so you’ll have some justification for the hatred you have in your own heart for the Godhead and for God’s people.
[all we ask for from apologetics is the truth]
I can hear the sound of the serpent’s hissing behind this false statement of yours, Jay. You can hiss on as much as you want, but what you really want is for people like me to stop supplying the concrete evidence that proves the Bible true way beyond any reasonable doubt that people like you conjure up. You hate it when your conscience is pricked because of your sin, so you just wish Christians would just shut up about sin and die. You’re much like your spiritual father Satan, who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy and history proves what lurks in the evil hearts of people like you. Whenever God haters rise to power, they seek to kill off the precious lives of those who don’t agree with them.
[The prophecies youmention in the above artcle was written after the fact,just like Daniel is written after the fact about Alexander the Great]
This is just wild unfounded speculation on your part. People like you have to come up with anything you can to try to make people doubt the truth God speaks, just like your spiritual father Satan the serpent did in the Garden of Eden. But the facts prove you wrong. Daniel has many other prophecies that were fulfilled long after his writings that show how wrong you are. For instance, Daniel prophesied in chap. 2 that God’s kingdom would be set up on earth and would never be destroyed. Many people like you who have been placed in power have sent out armies in numerous attempts century after century to annihilate God’s kingdom of Christians and our Bible, but they have all failed just as Daniel said. Daniel 7 & 11 predicts that a military man will come in the last days of earth to establish a one world government by defeating all earthly armies that rise against him and we see that is what many global elitists like the Vatican, the Rockefellers, and others are working toward today since they have publicly admitted it.
The oldest manuscript of Daniel dates back to about the 160s BC, which means the book is much older since it was in wide circulation by that date. The Cyrus Cylinder of Cyrus, king of Persia was found in the ruins of Babylon, a city which had been desolate since 141 BC. Since the Cyrus Cylinder describes royal eyewitness accounts of what happened in the kingdom of Persia, it has been dated to the 6th century BC. It corroborates details mentioned in Daniel that only could have been known by someone who actually saw it for themselves. It’s so reliable that our history books are based on what the Cylinder states. That’s why genuine historians can’t reliably dispute the book of Daniel. Those who do, such as yourself, do so because they aren’t as educated as they would have others believe they are.
[the supposed prophecies Christianity claims Jesus fulfilled were never Messiah prophecies]
Says the guy who hates Christ, his Christians, and their Bible. That alone makes you an unreliable source. Maybe you can serve a writ of habeas corpus for Jesus’ body to the Israeli authorities to show us where Jesus’ body is. 10 secular sources from the 1st century verify that his disciples were scared and hid when Jesus was put on trial and crucified. They also confirm Roman soldiers guarded his tomb. So they definitely didn’t steal his body. If they did and lied about it, they definitely would have given the body over instead of dying for a lie they conjured up. The Romans didn’t put up with insurrections from Jews, so if someone had tried to steal the body, they would have failed. So why didn’t the Romans parade his body around after the accounts of the resurrection to stop Christianity? The body wasn’t there, that’s why. It wasn’t there because Christ is risen indeed. We know where the bodies of Buddha, the Hindu gurus and Brahmans, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, and other great false prophets are buried. We even know where many of Jesus’ disciples are buried. So where’s Jesus’ body? Nowhere on earth.
[Genesis 2:17 is a good example of how you guys twist the Bible and or history]
You point out this verse because you don’t understand spiritual things. Adam & Eve did, in fact, die the same day they ate that fruit. They died spiritually and started the process of dying physically. Their spiritual relationship with God died.
[How many animals went on Noah’s ark by two’s or seven?]
It doesn’t matter how many were on the ark. It just matters that they were on the ark. That includes dinosaurs. If God was looking to start over, Noah definitely would not have chosen animals that were about to die. He would have chosen pups, and cubs, and chicks, and joeys, and other male & female animals that weren’t full grown. I cover your misconceived “contradictions” in my post “Doubts demolished: more Bible errors resolved.”
You refuse to accept the Bible as true even when it can be proven because your heart is so full of hatred and you allow your daddy Satan to blind your mind to the truth. So call me all the names you wish and conjure up all the lies you wish. The sinking sand of lies that you base your life on will not resolve the emptiness and lack of purpose you feel deep down inside that comes from denying the God you know exists. Attacking God, the Bible, and us Christians will never give you the peace and comfort that eludes you.
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Harry,i want to thank you for at last posting one of my refutes to your theories,but you sure moderated off your site many of them.Now let us check on your answers above.I suggest you do a modern un-biased research on when the book of Daniel was written and whether it had prophecies or not.According to Jewish sources Daniel did not make prophecies he instead wrote about visions.They also explain Dan.chapter 9 especially verses 25-27.that Christianity mis-represents those verses.The book of Daniel in Jewish sources are not listed under the Prophets.
I realize apologetics and Christians disregard Jewish thinking because they are against the belief of Jesus being the Messiah,but they understand Hebrew and Aramic writings better than even Christian scholars after all that is their native language,even though the Hebrew language has changed over the centuries.To me it is not the serpent hissing in my emails but I do hear him hissing in your responses.There is not even near concrete evidence that your Bible is true as you claim.No book in the Bible could possibly be inspired by god,there are to many mistakes,discrepancies,con tradictions and lies in it for any god to inspire it.My conscience is not bothered in the least from what you call sin,that’s a term written in your Bible for control over other men.
Let’s think with a simple clear mind here for a minute,this god that you claim knows everything in advace shows how dumb he is in the first chapter of Genesis,he turns loose a supposedly millions of years old entity(the serpent(Satan) on newly created man and woman and expects them to out smart a being who has been around for ages.How stupid could this god be?With my simple human mind I could do a better job than that,i would know the serpent(supposed Satan)would be smarter than anyone who was just created,then later this ignorant god visits all future humans with the sin of Adam and Eve.These people had nothing to do with Adam and Eve’s supposed sin,they didn’t ask to be born but yet this ignorant god passes someone else’s sin upon them .Just so he could later burn them up in a hell fire when it was all his fault.
That is stupidity,ignorance and flat out being a dummy for a god.Now don’t try to tell me god haters like to kill and destroy,christianity murdered millions over the centuries during the Inquisition and Crusades and more down through the past ages at claimed witch burnings,christianity is the murderers.Just like is claimed of the O.T.GOD,both are murderers.Your god could not establish the Christian religion so the Catholic church murdered to enforce Christianity.Even though you are against the Catholic religion you would not be what you are had not the Catholic church preserved the Christian belief.You claim Daniel in chapter 2 promises the kingdom of god would be set up on earth and never be destroyed,but you forget that has not happened yet,and never will.So there you go twisting facts again.
The educated you claim genuine scholars and historians you use are from Bible biased Christian biased people,who can be proved wrong by a peon like me who only looks for truth without previous bias.Since you mentrion me searching for Jesus body,i give you a challenge and if you can do it I will consider you correct on everything you’ve claimed,send me contemporary evidence or proof that Jesus the miracle worker,crucified and resurrected from the dead ever existed.Second century claims are worthless,send contemporary evidence Jesus ever lived.Yes there were plenty of Jesus’es (people named Jesus)in the first century but the contemporary evidence I ask for is Jesus the miracle worker,crucified and resurrecvted from the dead.Why didn’t the Romans parade around Jesus body,that’s because the gospels were not even written in the first century,the Jesus claim of crucifixtion and resurrection did not begin until the last half of the second century,so of course there was no body to parade around..Why are there no original manuscripts ?Your earliest copies(which are likely the originals)date to the mid 300 A.D.s.
You don’t know where the claimed desciples are buried,all you have is what your serpent father the Catholic church claims as a tradition of where some are buried.You are willing to believe only parts of what the Catholics claim the part that supports your theory.Pure stupidity that Dinosaurs were on the ark,you believe a book written by sheepherders and tent dwellers rather than modern science.Noah’s ark could never hold all the animals,birds,reptiles and insects for the species we have now,it’s impossible,plus enough feed to last almost one year,and 8 people could not even feed,water and remove excrement daily from all these creatures.And you must be a city boy what would the animals eat when they got off the ark,do you realize what happens to vegetation under water for almost one year?It’s not edible the creatures would die from eating it.So I guess these animals starved to death or died from being bloated before new vegetation came up.OF course with your biblical controlled mind you could claim another miracle that god dropped down animal manna like it is claimed he did for the Israelites in the wilderness.I told you that you would have to twist your book to get around all the errors,so now you want to claim Adam and Eve only died a spiritual death on the day they ate the fruit,foolish,foolish and that’s your theory,that is not what it even infers.Your Bible is chucked full of lies.Let’s see if you decide to moderate this email out of your posts.
In Real Truth,
Jay Osborne
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[…but you sure moderated off your site many of them]
Yes, I did. Although atheists like you hold to the socialist view of being entitled to whatever your selfish desires dictate, I’m not entitled to say “how high?” when you say “jump” so deal with it.
[According to Jewish sources Daniel did not make prophecies he instead wrote about visions.]
Jay, as usual, you’re lying. Whatever “Jewish” sources you cling to, they don’t have the final word on God’s word. God does. “…no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man…” Scripture is based on what God says about his words, and God calls Daniel a prophet. In Mark 13:14, Jesus called Daniel a prophet when he spoke to the Jews and none of the Jews around him disputed that Daniel was a prophet. It was accepted fact to the Jews that Daniel was a prophet. Liar.
[There is not even near concrete evidence that your Bible is true as you claim.No book in the Bible could possibly be inspired by god,there are to many mistakes,discrepancies,con tradictions and lies in it]
Liar. You make this statement because you don’t really know the Bible, science, or human history. You go by the assumption that you are a god unto yourself so if the evidence goes against your personal godforsaken beliefs, then the evidence has no merit. The link I included in the above post gives concrete evidence of how true the Bible is. Until you can show me that you never make mistakes or never sin and that you’re omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, I’ll take God’s word over your word.
[My conscience is not bothered in the least from what you call sin,that’s a term written in your Bible for control over other men.]
Liar. If your conscience weren’t bothered, you would just totally ignore me and go about your business instead of leaving comments.
[he turns loose a supposedly millions of years old entity(the serpent(Satan) on newly created man and woman and expects them to out smart a being who has been around for ages]
God gave them his word and they walked with him every day through the garden learning from God. Adam also named all of the animals in a very short period of time. He had intelligence and godly wisdom and a freewill. So God completely prepared him for Satan. Again, you don’t really know the Bible. Liar.
[With my simple human mind I could do a better job than that]
Your comments prove otherwise. You can’t even spell all your words correctly and you deny the concrete evidence of the Bible’s truth as shared in the link I provided in this post. Because of your pride, Satan uses you so well. Funny thing is, you’re totally unaware that the lead atheists behind this new atheist movement you cling to are actually Satanists and/or witches. So you really haven’t done a better job after all. Liar.
[These people had nothing to do with Adam and Eve’s supposed sin,they didn’t ask to be born ]
Liar. You’re the one who’s ignorant, as shown by your comments. Man is not only a physical, but a spiritual being. Just like Adam & Eve passed down their physical body parts, they passed down their sinful spirit. That was man’s choice to sin, not God’s. God always gives us freedom of choice–to sin or not to sin. Both choices have repercussions.
Hell was originally made as a prison for the fallen angels. Your comment shows the typical atheist/socialist/liberal mentality of blaming everybody else for your own bad choices, as if you’re “entitled” to do as you wish. You have the arrogance to criticize God for hell when you rejoice when criminals go to prison. God created the idea of justice which you yourself acknowledge as a self-evident truth in your comment, yet you contradict yourself by claiming you hate it when God does it, but it’s okay if you applaud it. Liar. Hypocrite. Your statements prove you’re a sinner.
[Now don’t try to tell me god haters like to kill and destroy]
In your previous comment above, you claimed that people like you only want the truth. Now you tell me you don’t want the truth about your kind. Hypocritical liar. You’re telling me you don’t like history. Atheists/liberals/socialists were responsible for the most deaths in the 20th century. They killed more Christians last century than the previous centuries combined. They killed more people than were killed in the Inquisitions or Crusades or any witch trials. Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Hitler, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Margaret Sanger are all on public record in the annals of history who proudly proclaim their atheism and self-godhood and they all enjoyed shedding innocent blood. It’s fact. Deal with it.
Atheists really don’t care about scientific truth either. If they did, they would be vehemently against murdering unborn children. And they wouldn’t be in support of the underground eugenics movement or euthanasia. They’re just like their father Satan. He was a murderer from the beginning. Friedrich Nietzsche, the forerunner of postmodern atheism, said “Liberal institutions straightaway cease from being liberal the moment they are soundly established: once this is attained no more grievous and more thorough enemies of freedom exist than liberal institutions.”
[christianity murdered millions over the centuries during the Inquisition and Crusades and more down through the past ages at claimed witch burnings,christianity is the murderers]
More proof you hate the truth. The Inquisitions and Crusades were all perpetrated by the popes, who early Christians acknowledged as being antichrists. The targets of the Inquisitions and Crusades were Bible-believing Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Bible-believing Christians were also the targets of witch trials. It’s just like a child of the devil to ignore the facts and falsely accuse Christians of something they weren’t responsible for. I guess you’re carrying on the tradition of Nero and the popes.
58 minute video on the popes’ Inquisitions
[Even though you are against the Catholic religion you would not be what you are had not the Catholic church preserved the Christian belief]
Liar. You really don’t know your history, do you? The Catholic Church has been the main institution trying to snuff out Christianity via Inquisitions and Crusades. They were the ones who tried to get European monarchs to kill Bible believers. Constantine is even on record as sending out troops to imprison or kill Bible believers who wouldn’t show their alliance to his false religion and his false Bible. Constantine and the European Catholic monarchs even tried to destroy all copies of the Bible that were based on the Majority Text and not their Alexandrian texts.
Furthermore, the latest pope revealed just how cozy the Vatican is with your new atheist movement. He blessed atheists a few weeks ago, claiming their good works would get them to heaven. The Vatican behind the scenes has blessed all movements that target Bible-believing Christians, whether they’re witches, Satanists, global elitists, false evangelicals, Muslims, Hindus, shamans, Republicans, Democrats, independents, conservatives, liberals, atheists, or whatever. We’re getting in the way of their hopes for global governance and people like you are all too happy to help them out even if you pretend to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. It’s all a game to attack God’s truth, and you’re just one of their many pawns in their bloodthirsty, power hungry games.
Yet, despite their efforts, more people continue to repent & confess Jesus as Lord.
[the gospels were not even written in the first century,the Jesus claim of crucifixtion and resurrection did not begin until the last half of the second century,so of course there was no body to parade around]
Liar. Wow, you really are ignorant of history. Clement of Rome’s writings (95 AD) quoted heavily from NT writings, including the gospels. So did the writings of Ignatius (107 AD), Polycarp (110 AD), and several other early churchmen from that era. It’s now established fact that the NT was completed by the end of the 1st century AD and that Jesus’ disciples traveled the world preaching the gospel throughout Europe, Asia, and Africa. Which brings me to your burial of the disciples comment.
[You don’t know where the claimed desciples are buried]
Thomas Didymus (i.e. doubting Thomas) is buried in India where there is a memorial at his burial site. He preached the gospel in India but was eventually martyred by Hindus. Some of the gurus incorporated the Biblical writings he shared with them into Hindu scripture.
Peter, James the son of Zebedee, and James the brother of the Lord Jesus are all buried in Jerusalem as verified by archaeologists. The Vatican claimed Peter was buried in Rome, which is why they have their headquarters there. Then it was discovered in the 1950s that Peter was actually buried in Jerusalem where they found his grave. The Vatican lied to make themselves look legit. Now they’re trying to establish their headquarters in Jerusalem and have been trying to make nice with the Israelis, who they really hate.
Thanks for displaying how much of a liar you are and that you really don’t care about the historical facts or truth as you falsely claimed before. You really need Jesus.
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Harry, your remarks to the atheist Jay were sound. I concur. However, on the animals going in the ark by two’s and by seven’s: Gen 7:2 states the clean animals by seven and the unclean animals by two. God introduced the concept of clean and unclean, and you of course know how important this is throughout the rest of Scripture all the way through the New Testament not only in terms of diet but also as part of the sacrificial system all of which pointed to Jesus Christ.
I have added Jay to my prayer list. I am praying that God will make the situation occur where Jay is going to need Him, believe Him, and receive Him.
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Thanks for your input, Richard.
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Richard,in case you missed it I spent 32 years in Christianity,before I decided to use what it says in 1 Thess.5:21 and prove all things,when I started that research it took over 8 years for me to finally throw up my hands and say the Bible is the biggest conspiracy ever put over on humanity.I know your Bible well,better than you and Harry because you are biblically mind controlled,biblically brainwashed w/blind faith and blindly accept what ever the book says.I challenge you just like I challenged Harry,send me contemporary proof and evidence that Jesus the miracle worker,crucified and resurrected from the dead ever existed as a flesh and blood person.
Your prayers for me will go out into cyber space to a supposed invisible,inaudible sky god,i stick to real truth not pie in the sky,i don’t and never will again believe in such HOGWASH.
In Real Truth,
Jay Osborne
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Jay,
You’re living proof that Proverbs is correct–‘The way of a fool is right in his own eyes’ Proverbs 12:15. You spent 32 years hanging around Christian settings, but you were a poser, a fake, a fraud. ‘…it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.‘ 1 John 2:18-19
So we can conclude that Hebrews 6:4-9 applies to you since you have brought forth spiritual briers and thorns. 2 Peter 2:20-22 also applies to you since you are a dog that has returned to its own vomit and a washed sow that has returned to its wallowing in the mire. May God have mercy on your lost soul.
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Interesting site. I have to ask, from what sources did you derive your position on the fall of the mainland settlement of Tyre as a prophetic demolishing of the recognized ancient island city of Tyre? While I am not interested in a theological debate, I believe there is reasonable archeological evidence to support the view that any word of warning spoken against Tyre in the ancient world would have undoubtedly been acknowledged as directed at the island city, home of the major economic ports. (Check out “Tyre through the Ages” by Nina Jordanian.) again not to add fuel to respective arguments on either side of the theological issue posed on this page, the retreat of residents from what could be called a “sub settlement” of Tyre on the mainland to the main island city of Tyre would seem more like citizens of the actual city leaving an outlying post or subservient township than an outright fleaing from the acknowledged ancient city of Tyre. Wouldn’t it?
Respectfully,
Mike
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I list my source at the end of my statements on Tyre above.
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Upon a bit more consideration, and as not to waste anyone’s time in answering my initial question, I recognize Ushu or Old Tyre located on the mainland was the forerunner to the island city of Tyre and largely populated but, I still must ask how a sweeping word of prophetic destruction toward Tyre would not include it’s religious and quite possibly if not probably, it’s administrative center?
Respectfully,
Mike
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Your statement is speculative. You’re assuming the island part was the religious and/or administrative center. This history is incomplete and therefore conjecture. So I’m sticking to what the Bible says since it hasn’t failed yet. Refer to #2 at the end of my main post above.
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Last comment, just to aid in clearing any confusion, upon reading the passage from the Hebrew text in Ezekiel. Verses 6 and 8 seem to make it quite clear the author was aware of and incorporated the distinction between Tyre and “her mainland settlements” this would obviously include Tyre’s economic expansion settlements beyond Ushu, but clearly would include Ushu not as a settlement but grouped with them for the purpose of the passage, as no distinction of Old Tyre is made as the marked city for destruction, which given Tyre’s reputation as an island city would probably have been a significant distinction to make in such a prophecy. in fact from the reading I immediately took away its reference to the island city As the main city and the coastal areas as settlements.
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Mike,
I don’t believe you read the Hebrew text from the Ezekiel 26 passage I quoted above. There is no difference between the Hebrew and English translations to even slightly imply the assumptions you make in this statement. You’re falsely assuming Tyre is known as an island city. Ancient eyewitnesses, including and especially those from the Bible, prove otherwise (Source: International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1939, “Tyre”). If you, like so many people, just automatically assume the Bible inaccurate and assume all other sources outside the Bible are always accurate, you’ll always lose in the end.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:20-21 (The Holy Ghost being the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God whose abilities and knowledge always greatly surpass man’s.)
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Hi Harry,
Thank you for your prompt response. I am very interested in the sources you’ve sited and will review them eagerly. I mean no disrespect to your convictions, and thank you for your work and study in this matter. As a note of clarification when I spoke about Hebrew text I did not intend to be misleading in my study, I do not pretend to be a student of the ancient Hebrew language, I was simply referring to what is known as the Old Testament as the Hebrew text. I referred to the New English Translation when reviewing the verses, is there an interpretation you favor more? I would hate to be discussing this topic in an apples to oranges way if we can share a common version of the text. I respect your convictions and again I am grateful for your feedback.
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Mike,
I only use the kjv. The others have been shown to be tampered with.
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Hi Harry,
One quick note I thought about earlier, that you may appreciate is this: If the version I read from that describes “mainland settlements” of Tyre being destroyed was written from the view point of Old Tyre being the actual city in question, meaning the island at that point was considered another settlement, than tremendous kudos to the Hebrew author for delineating that only the mainland settlements would be destroyed, and the island, presumably a non mainland settlement left intact. Which of course history bares out to at least the time of Alexander the Great. Again, eager to review your sources.
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Hi Harry,
Wow, what an exciting bit of history! I did review the source you mentioned above, forgive me I was unable to find source material on the page aside from the source you provided in your comment. I fully understand this is only my perception of the information you provided but according to the source material of (Source: International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1939, “Tyre”) the authors tend to lend credence to the idea of Tyre as a double city both, island based and mainland based, this is in agreement, I believe, with your initial post prior to comments. In order to review the economic relevance of the island city I thought it best to first review Biblical archaeological study, so that a degree of trust in the exploration could be extended to your view of the subject matter. By no means do I intend to say in doing this, that these scholars are 100% correct as I am sure that you have seen work done even within the field of Biblical archaeology that may not be entirely accurate as your comments regarding various interpretation of the Bible tend to imply that even within the field of Biblical research results can be “tampered with” from your perspective (I would be inclined to agree respectfully). The source I am referencing first is: (The Associates for Biblical Research)
“Tyre (called Sour in Arabic today) was constructed on a rock island a few hundred yards out into the Mediterranean (Ward 1997:247). In fact, the city took its name from this rock island. Tyre comes from the Semetic sr (Hebrew Sor, Arabic Sur, Babylonian Surru, Egyptian Dr,) meaning rock”
This would imply at least in my opinion a reasonable estimation that the city of Tyre drew at least a historical identity for lack of a better term from the island portion of the “Double City”.
The second source I will visit is not a Biblical Archaeological reference, but I don’t believe it would hold any controversial information for the purpose of our discussion: (Ancient History Encyclopedia) This resource references(Durant, W. The Life of Greece. Simon & Schuster, 1936.
Miles, R. Carthage Must Be Destroyed. Viking Adult, 2010.
Worthington, I. Alexander the Great. Routledge, 2004.)
My specific reference is to the economic aspect of Tyre prior to the seige of Nebuchadnezzer.
“Tyre was in its golden age around the 10th century BCE and, in the 8th, was colonizing other sites in the area and enjoying great wealth and prosperity owing primarily to an allicance with Israel. The Tyrian alliance and trade agreement with David, King of Israel, was initiated by the King of Tyre, Abibaal who sent the new king timber from the fabled cedars of Lebanon (as Abibaal’s son, Hiram, is said to have done for David’s son Solomon).”
While this does not directly point to the economic impact of the Island alone, a simple review of most topographical maps of the island of ancient Tyre, even without myriad archaeological reviews including Biblical sources, would indicate that the main ports of Tyre were located on the island and the city could not have enjoyed it’s golden age without them. I mention the dates of the relative “golden age” to indicate that this was prior to the seige of Nebuchadnezzer.
With these points in mind I must first apologize, In my initial comment I stated that the identity of Tyre was significantly tied to the idea of an island city. While it is, at this point in history, that perception is, most likely largely based on history after the seige of Nebuchadnezzer; however with the points listed above it would seem very reasonable, at least in my opinion, that the island city was considered, at least, as much “The City of Tyre” prior to Nebuchadnezzer as the mainland.
I will not make any further inferences based on these examples. I do not want to step to far into the realm of conjecture, but certainly this provides some evidence of the veracity of my initial statement. Of course your rebuttal and perspective is greatly appreciated on these points. I am always interested in new ways to perceive points of historical significance, as evidenced my my concession of the Hebrew author’s excellence in delineating the degree of destruction had the island city have been shown to be a mere settlement.
In regard to use of Biblical text, reading from the King James Version you are absolutely correct, that it does not specifically mention “mainland settlements”.
Respectfully,
Mike
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At the end of it all, God’s prophecies never fail. He gives prophecies from his vantage point. The Bible was the 1st and only source to speak of ruling Hittites and experts for centuries dismissed it as myth until they discovered more ancient sources in digs which confirmed the Bible. So I’ll repeat this from my original post
“2. We don’t know everything there is to know about the history of ancient civilizations. There are archaeological discoveries buried in the soils and sands of time that have not been discovered yet, so much of human history still has unanswered questions, including some history mentioned in Bible prophecies.”
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Hi Harry,
I appreciate your prompt responses throughout this discussion. I agree that all history is not known and it would be monumentally stupid of me to close the book on such a fascinating point of history. If anything this discussion has moved me to study further this specific area. A couple questions, at least, immediately arise that I will be putting myself to shortly 1) was the island city the major economic engine at the time of Nebuchadnezzer or was the mainland city? And why? 2) Would the activities on the island be suggestive of more of a city environment or more a commercial district feeding the mainland? I get lost in the idea of the relationship between an island a few hundred yards off the coast and its mainland counterpart and what that would have looked like thousands of years ago. As stated earlier I respect your convictions and do not intend for any of this discussion to disparage either side of the theological discussion that unfolded above, nor do I think it has. My initial curiosity was in the idea of an ancient view of the Phoenician’s that saw something different than the whole of the ancient world recognizing tyre as an island city. I have to say I definitely got what I was after, this information helps me see this point in history in a new light. Thank you again for your post Harry and your study and work on this subject.
And if might be so bold offer a customary fair well from the Old Testament Hebrew text:
“May the Lord make his face to shine upon you… And give you His peace.”
That may be slightly paraphrased 🙂
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