The Ancient City of Tyre Demonstrates Bible Prophecy Fulfilled

Bible critics and skeptics, desperate to make God and the Bible look bad, are keen on spreading the lie that various Bible prophecies aren’t being fulfilled. One such example is the ancient city of Tyre. Ezekiel in the following prophecy predicted Tyre’s utter destruction:

32 And in their wailing they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What city is like Tyrus, like the destroyed in the midst of the sea?

33 When thy wares went forth out of the seas, thou filledst many people; thou didst enrich the kings of the earth with the multitude of thy riches and of thy merchandise.

34 In the time when thou shalt be broken by the seas in the depths of the waters thy merchandise and all thy company in the midst of thee shall fall. Ezekiel 27

The critics and skeptics argue that Tyre was never completely destroyed and that it was rebuilt, contrary to what Bible prophecy says. However, Mike Winger, a pastor, gives a methodical breakdown in the 40-minute video below showing how the critics have lied about the fulfillment of this prophecy and proves historically how the Bible was spot on in its predictions about Tyre.


15 thoughts on “The Ancient City of Tyre Demonstrates Bible Prophecy Fulfilled

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  1. It’s always interesting to see Christians deny what their bible claims when reality doesn’t work with what they think happened. The bible claims that Tyre will be completely forgotten. Unsurprisingly, that never happened. “15 From that day Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the lifetime of one king.” This has never happened, Tyre has been occupied.

    then we have this nonsense “19 For thus says the Lord God: When I make you a city laid waste, like cities that are not inhabited, when I bring up the deep over you, and the great waters cover you, 20 then I will thrust you down with those who descend into the Pit, to the people of long ago, and I will make you live in the world below, among primeval ruins, with those who go down to the Pit, so that you will not be inhabited or have a place[e] in the land of the living. 21 I will bring you to a dreadful end, and you shall be no more; though sought for, you will never be found again, says the Lord God.”

    So, “never found again”? Funny how again, it’s always been around and archaeologists find the older bits with no problem. No “deep water” covering Tyre. The bible fails again. Each Christian makes the bible and their god in their own image, insisting that they and only they have the correct interpretation.

    Winger is a great one to show how Christians will make up anything to excuse their bible. This quote from Winger is great on how he just ignores what his bible really says to make a prophecy fit a story it doesn’t match: ” this whole “mistranslation” debate falls on one letter in one word from “pierced” or “like a lion.” Even if this was meant to read “hands and feet bitten by a lion” how is this any different than your hands and feet being pierced by a large nail?”

    I guess that Winger can’t figure out that being bitten by a lion isn’t the same as having a nail put through a body part, and one isn’t the other.

    It’s also good to see Winger ignore his bible and try to falsely claim it predicted the big bang theory, which isn’t true at all” “And the Bible says the universe had a beginning. “It began to exist, God created it. It didn’t exist and then it did exist. And this has been confirmed.”” Yep, it predicted a beginning, and so did a lot of other myths from other religions. Still no BBT shown to be predicted, and Winger sucks up to science since he can’t reject it from the evidence.


    1. @clubschadenfreude,

      It’s easy for you to take snippets of scripture out of their context to try to twist them into having a different meaning. But when it comes to interacting with critics of the Bible, I always keep in mind at least this one rule–Never assume an atheist or other critic of the Bible is speaking truthfully when they are giving you their explanation of what the Bible says or means. I use that principle because people like you think it’s okay to lie to get people on your side.

      When you quoted Ezekiel 26:19-21 above & call it nonsense, it’s because you’re ignorant of Tyre’s history. As Winger says in the video, “You’re just assuming it because you don’t like prophecy.” Tyre has never been found again in the sense that the new city of Tyre is in a different location and has not reached the prominence that ancient Tyre had, even though some may have sought to revive the old Tyre.

      Try as you may to play down the fulfillment of Bible prophecy regarding Tyre, it was besieged by many nations as predicted in Ezekiel 26:3. And you lied about the Bible saying Tyre would be completely forgotten when you quoted Isaiah 23:15. The context of that Isaiah passage clearly says Tyre would only be out of a position of influence, i.e. forgotten, for only a 70-year period. You assume that this period never happened, and it’s a huge assumption since there are still ancient historical records which may not have been discovered yet. People like you are the ones who mocked the Bible over a century ago because the Bible mentioned the powerful Hittites. Their mockery was silenced after archaeologists found the artifacts and records of the Hittite Empire, confirming what the Bible said.


      1. It’s even easier for you do take snippets of scripture and then try to claim that this is such a horrible thing to do. How funny.  Of course, you don’t like the ones I’ve mentioned since they show your bible to be wrong.
        I did not twist them at all, and presented them as written. Christians, like you, try to claim that only you interpret them “correctly”, but we see no evidence of this at all. You need to try to claim that since your bible fails repeatedly in its claims, and you are stuck apologizing for it.
        You try to claim I’m lying and again, were is the evidence for this, Harry? That I don’t agree with you? Then you need to show that your and only your interpretation is the right one, or you find yourself intentionally bearing false witness, an action your bible says is a bad thing. I don’t think lying is a good thing at all, unless it’s used to hide a young Jewish girl from Nazis or something like that. What is typical is that a Christian will try to misrepresent what is actually in their bible, hoping that the reader hasn’t read the bible themselves.
        Tyre has been found again since we have found the archaeological remains of the old city which is under and around the new one. Winger is a liar. You, and he, have to try invent a way for your failed prophecy to “really” work by attempting to redefine what found means. It’s such a pitifully transparent attempt. This is quite like when Christians try to claim that their supposed messiah “really” fulfills the Jewish prophecies by trying to intentionally mistranslate Hebrew, for instance when Christians try to claim that “like a lion” means “pierce” when it doesn’t. Your attempts are hilarious. It’s like watching you try to claim that Chicago or London don’t “really” exist since a part of it burnt and was rebuilt.
        People have lived in Tyre since it was founded, rebuilding it repeatedly, just like hmmm, Jerusalem.
        I don’t have to downplay the prophecy in the bible about Tyre at all. I can watch you do that by your desperate attempts to rewrite the bible. It’s also so cute to see you again try to rewrite it by insisting that forgotten “really” means “degraded influence”. Alas for you, forgotten means forgotten: to be unable to be recalled. This is how Jews translate it “” So we have “In that day, Tyre shall remain forgotten for seventy years, equaling the lifetime of one king. After a lapse of seventy years, it shall go with Tyre as with the harlot in the ditty: Take a lyre, go about the town, Harlot long forgotten; Sweetly play, make much music, To bring you back to mind. For after a lapse of seventy years, the LORD will take note of Tyre, and she shall resume her “fee-taking” and “play the harlot” with all the kingdoms of the world, on the face of the earth.”

        See the term “back to mind” and “take note”. That indicates it was forgotten, not lowered in stature. Of course, you’ll likely insist that the Jews aren’t interpreting their own language and holy book in the “right” way.
        Finally, all you have is a god of the gaps argument, that “honest, there could be ancient records that will show me true”. Since Christians have been desperately looking for evidence for their nonsense for a couple of thousand years, there is no reason to believe this to be the case. It’s the same pitiful attempt to insist that there just has to be evidence of other bible nonsense like the exodus, the resurrection, etc if we just keep looking.
        That the bible got it right about the Hittites is saying that a Spider-man comic book is right because it mentions New York City. Yep, it got it right about the Romans existing, and that wine existing, and again, not one bit of evidence for the essential events of the bible. The only one that comes close is the claims that invoke the Babylonian Captivity but that is even wrong in the details that we know. The Greek and Roman myths mention real places and names too; are they as valid as your bible?


      2. @clubschadenfreude,

        You’re self-deceived if you think you’ve proven the Bible wrong. It’s obvious by your comments that you didn’t even bother to watch the video of Mike Winger that I posted. He debunks your skeptic comment that Tyre was never underwater when in fact the old island part of Tyre IS underwater. The Bible is also spot on, like I said before, when God said “many nations” like waves would come against Tyre. The mainland part of Tyre was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. That’s historical fact. And Isaiah predicted it before Babylon was a world power.

        I also stand by my correction of your false statement in your first comment about Tyre being “completely forgotten.” The Bible never said Tyre would be “completely forgotten.” By the context of the scripture in Isaiah 23, Tyre’s being forgotten means it would not be in a position where other nations would consider it influential. It would only be forgotten temporarily for 70 years. That’s not “completely forgotten.” Then Isaiah prophesied Tyre would once again return to its prominence with international trade, committing “fornication with all the kingdoms of the world.” And that’s exactly what happened. I even gave an example in my last reply to you about how “being forgotten” works. The Hittite Empire was forgotten until archaeologists discovered its ruins were discovered in the late 1800s to early 1900s. Israel was forgotten from 70 AD when Rome destroyed it until 1948 when it became a nation once again (both incidents were a fulfillment of Bible prophecy). You are so quick to bend over backwards to conjure up any weak excuse to dismiss the Bible that you pretend not to know simple rules of grammar.

        You intentionally overlook the fact that to forget something also means to ignore, neglect, or to intentionally disregard something. All of those apply to what happened to the city of Tyre for 70 years after Alexander the Great destroyed it. The city did not begin to regain any sort of dignity until after it was placed under the control of the Ptolemaic Empire in the 270s-260s BC, approximately 70 years after 332 BC when Alexander conquered it. See this link under the subheading “The Hellenistic Age”–> .

        Since you mentioned the Romans, the earliest existing manuscript of Daniel is 150 BC. That means it was in wide circulation before then. Daniel predicted Rome would become an Empire before Rome had even entered the world stage. It didn’t become an Empire until 27 BC. Daniel even predicted Rome would be known for its signature metal–iron. He even predicted it would be broken up into two major parts (East & West) with each of those parts having 5 prominent kingdoms apiece. So as I said before in paraphrasing what Mike Winger said in his video about people like you, “You’re just assuming things because you don’t like prophecy.” Prophecy stirs up the fear in you of having to come to grips with your sin and the Bible’s remedy for sin that calls for you to repent.


      3. Harry,
        I have presented what the bible says. You have tried to change the meaning of words in it.

        Winger doesn’t debunk anything I’ve said about what the bible states. He also tries to change the meaning of words in the bible to avoid having to admit that this god fails.

        Both of you depend on presuppositions that your version of your god exists, and that books of the bible were written by eyewitnesses and were written when you need them to be written. There is nothing to support your claims about any of these.
        I do like seeing you repeatedly show your own claims to be false, when you admit that Tyre wasn’t destroyed though you keep claiming it was. Nebuchadnezzar destroyed “part” of Tyre, not all of it, just like you have admitted. A part is not the whole thing, Harry, and you again trip yourself up.

        The bible says “completely forgotten” and it’s great to see you insist that the bible is lying, by your attempt to try to make those words mean something different.
        In the KJV “ And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.”
        In the NRSV: “5 From that day Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the lifetime of one king. At the end of seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song about the prostitute:16 Take a harp, go about the city, you forgotten prostitute! Make sweet melody, sing many songs, that you may be remembered.”

        If something isn’t forgotten, it doesn’t have to do anything to be remembered. Again, your bible shows you to be a liar, Harry. No one cares if you stand by a lie. The author of Isaiah said that Tyre would be forgotten and then when it isn’t forgotten, then it comes back to notice. The author never said that people still knew about Tyre; that is your addition.

        People knew about the Hittites but were not sure if they existed; they were not forgotten. We knew about them. Israel was not forgotten ever, thanks to the bible mentioning it repeatedly. Or do you want to claim that your bible didn’t do that, Harry, and that no Christian ever knew of Israel? That would be very silly if you tried that.

        Again, you try so hard to change the meaning of words in order for your claims to read true. It doesn’t work. It does show that a Christian is willing to make false claims for their religion. I know the rules of grammar and it’s hilarious that you try to claim that I don’t. I’ve been using them to show that your interpretation of the bible is in error. There is nothing in grammar that supports your claims about how “forgotten” only means lowered in power.
        Like the word “sterile”, forgotten is a state that is absolute. I don’t even need to say “completely forgotten” to establish this; “forgotten” does just as well.

        In the context of the book of Isaiah, the other possible definitions of forgotten don’t work, Harry. If you’d thought for a moment, you’d realize that. Let’s try with the verse:

        ““5 From that day Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the lifetime of one king. At the end of seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song about the prostitute:16 Take a harp, go about the city, you forgotten prostitute! Make sweet melody, sing many songs, that you may be remembered.”

        So, let’s try the words you claim can also fit in:

        “5 From that day Tyre will be *ignored* for seventy years, the lifetime of one king. At the end of seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song about the prostitute:16 Take a harp, go about the city, you forgotten prostitute! Make sweet melody, sing many songs, that you may be remembered.”

        ““5 From that day Tyre will be *neglected* for seventy years, the lifetime of one king. At the end of seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song about the prostitute:16 Take a harp, go about the city, you forgotten prostitute! Make sweet melody, sing many songs, that you may be remembered.”

        ““5 From that day Tyre will be *intentionally disreguarded* for seventy years, the lifetime of one king. At the end of seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song about the prostitute:16 Take a harp, go about the city, you forgotten prostitute! Make sweet melody, sing many songs, that you may be remembered.”

        So, if these words can be used, then why did the author say that Tyre will be remembered if the other words work? One doesn’t need to remember something that was “intentionally disreguarded”, “neglected” or “ignored”. Did the Christian interpreters screw up? And how would they since they claim that this god/holy spirit told them how to do it? So, again, your own link shows that your bible and you are wrong. Tyre existed, there is nothing about “dignity” in your bible.

        There is nothing to support that since a manuscript of Daniel is dated to 150 BC (always great fun when Christians want to accept dates for somethings but not for others using the same method) that the book was “in wide circulation” before that.
        The author of Daniel doesn’t mention Rome at all; the attempt to equal one of his four kingdoms is just like how people want to assign nostradamus’ supposed “prophecies” to various groups as convenient for them. Jews and Christians do not agree on what the claims of the book of Daniel mean:

        Unfortunately for you, Harry, I read the bible and I know what it says, despite your attempts to make false claims.
        You’ve made up your prophecy, Harry. And you repeatedly assume things because of your need to have something to prop up your religion. So much for “faith”.

        Oh, and now you are returning to the lie that atheists are afraid of your god and rebel against it. Nope to both since we don’t believe in your god or your personal version of what “sins” it cares about.


      4. clubschadenfreude,

        What is with you atheist/agnostic types constantly projecting onto others what you are guilty of yourselves? You make false claims about the Bible then accuse me of making false claims. It’s really pathetic and obvious. Just like other liberals, you think you are so superior that you can redefine words to mean whatever you want them to mean in whatever context at your whim. I’m not buying your line about “I read the bible and I know what it says.” Especially after I pointed out how you strip the Bible passages of their context and then give your uneducated personal commentary about it with your blatant ignorance of both history and spiritual matters.

        You attempt to sound innocent about your obvious ulterior motives by saying you just simply presented what the Bible says. You took a snippet of what the Bible said and then just drew the conclusion that the Bible is mistaken as you intentionally neglected to present the real historical record. It’s the typical type of deception atheists tend to carry out. I’ve interacted with enough of you to know your games and deceptive practices which stem from the seething hatred you have in your heart for God and anything or anyone that resembles him, including all of humanity.

        forget ( to treat with inattention or disregard; to disregard intentionally : OVERLOOK; synonyms: NEGLECT, DISREGARD, IGNORE, OVERLOOK, SLIGHT.

        You atheists are such liars and not as intelligent as you want others to think you are. It’s amusing how in the 4th paragraph of this comment you state:

        The bible says “completely forgotten” and it’s great to see you insist that the bible is lying, by your attempt to try to make those words mean something different.

        Then you quote Isaiah 23 in both the KJV (the real Bible) and the NRSV (a cheap imitation of the Bible) where the phrase “completely forgotten” never appears once in either version. That’s just how much of a deceiver you are. You falsely accuse me of trying to change meanings when you are actually the one changing meanings–more typical atheist projections on your part. You then falsely claim:

        Like the word “sterile”, forgotten is a state that is absolute. I don’t even need to say “completely forgotten” to establish this; “forgotten” does just as well.

        Everyone knows by experience that statement of yours is an outright lie. “Forgotten” does not always imply something is “completely forgotten.” There are several levels of forgetting. For example, someone who has misplaced something like their car keys. They temporarily forget where they put them and then have to retrace their steps to then call to their remembrance what they momentarily forgot. Alzheimer’s patients may forget who someone is one minute and the next minute may have a moment of clarity where they remember who the person in front of them is. Same thing for amnesia patients. Then you may have a person who intentionally disregards, ignores, or overlooks (i.e. forgets) their ex-girlfriend in order to move forward in their next, more-promising relationship. Have you ever been in a business meeting where someone interjects a tangential factor that may not be the focus of the matter at hand? The person in charge of the meeting may say something like, “Let’s forget about that for the moment and come up with the solution for this first. Then if we need to, we can address that other matter down the road.” The tangential matter may not be “completely forgotten” but is simply intentionally disregarded (i.e. forgotten) as unimportant temporarily.

        But aside from all of that, your wordiness is just to distract from the accuracy of Biblical prophecy that is reflected in the historical record. Tyre was forgotten only 70 years, just like Isaiah 23 prophesied. Right after Alexander the Great killed most of the people on the island city, only leaving a remnant, he kept them on a short leash to make sure they couldn’t revamp their society. Upon Alexander’s death, the Seleucids and Ptolemies had several wars over Syria and Phoenicia, where Tyre was. This instability prevented the original city from being rebuilt and their relocated city from rising to prominence until after the Seleucid-Ptolemy wars ended in 271 BC with the Ptolemies as the victor. Then in the 260s BC, the remaining Tyrians had enough stability to start building up their international trade once again as the harlot that Isaiah 23 predicted they would be. From 332 BC, when Alexander destroyed them, to the 260s BC is 70 years. You can argue until you’re blue in the face about all these simple facts I’ve presented and you may try to project onto someone else your own deceptions, but you would just make yourself out to be a bigger liar.


      5. Your weak and deceptive response isn’t surprising since you haven’t bothered to present genuine facts to back up your weak claims against the Bible. All you’ve done is help me show that you, like so many God-hating atheist/agnostics, are a liar who doesn’t care about truth as long as you can make up excuses to keep your pet sins. It must be a truly sad existence you have.


      6. Thanks, Harry, for showing that you have no problem in bearing false witness and ignoring your bible. It’s hilarious that you have to claim that I haven’t given “genuine” facts, in order to keep intact your attempt to ignore the facts I have given. All you are now trying to do is claim that only facts that agree with your claims are “genuine”.

        Alas for you, no sad existence at all. That’s only your need to fantasize that anyone who shows you are wrong must be unhappy.

        Please do show where I’ve lied, Harry, and which of the facts I have shown aren’t “genuine”. It’s also hilarious to see you try to claim that the KJV bible is the “real bible” when so many Christians don’t agree with you. Again, you show that Christianity isn’t a major religion since you try to claim that other Christians aren’t interpreting the bible “correctly”, and that you believe the version commissioned by a king to support his claim to the throne, and missing 400 years of research is somehow the only “right” one. 😀

        You do a great job of showing why Christianity is failing, Harry. We have thousands of sects of Christianity who all claim that their version is the only “right” one, and no sect can show that they have their god’s approval by being able to heal people as the author of Mark and James promise. Add that to the failure of repeated prophecies that Jesus Christ will be back “real soon now”, and Christianity is just one more failed religion.


      7. clubshady,

        Your comments truly reflect your sad existence that’s typical of God-haters. You’re miserable inside so you troll Christian websites like mine that share Biblical truths that are reflected in the secular historical record. Then you spew lies and twist words while falsely accusing Christians like Winger and myself of lying. It’s a typical Satanic modus operandus that you’re carrying out. You can’t even get the definition correct for a simple word like forgotten. The only reason you keep returning is that you want others to share in the misery of your sin and lies because misery loves company. You misquote the Bible out of context, then falsely accuse me of bearing false witness for not agreeing with your hellish, Satanically-inspired eisegesis of God’s word. Then you not only misrepresent God’s word, you can’t even present historical facts to back up what you say.

        You are truly of your father the devil. Do you think that by repeating your lies, you’ll cause a genuine Christian to join you on the road to hell? Think again. Once Christ saves a soul, no human can pluck them from the mighty hand of God, even when you misquote scripture like Satan did with Jesus in the wilderness. The Bible predicted in Daniel and Revelation that world leaders would try to form a one world government, and we see it being fulfilled with globalist atheists in the EU, the Vatican, and Soros attempting it. In Genesis 1 the Bible talks about water being present throughout the heavens (outer space) and now scientists have confirmed there’s a lot of water on the moon and in other places in space just like the Bible said.

        Isaiah 40:22 talks of an expanding universe before Hubble and Einstein figured out it was true. Jeremiah 33:22 prophesied that the celestial bodies in the universe cannot be numbered and neither could the sands of the sea, now scientists know that for a fact. Job 26:7 says that the Earth hangs on nothing, now it’s proven scientific fact. Psalm 8:8 talks about there being paths in the seas before Matthew Maury in the 1840s actually mapped out those paths, the ocean currents, to help ships understand how they flow so they can travel more efficiently.

        Ezekiel 29 and 30 predicted how Egypt would be desolate 40 years because of Nebuchadnezzar defeating them in battle. Now history has proven it true after the ancient annals of the Babylonian kings were discovered. Psalm 83 prophesied that the nations surrounding Israel would unite to try to destroy it–and that they would lose. It even names the nations. In 1948 and 1967, Lebanon (Gebal), Syria (Tyre), Iraq (Assur), Egypt with Saudi Arabia’s help (Ishmael, Hagarenes), and Transjordan (Ammon, Moab, Amalek) all joined forces to try to do just that, and they lost both times, just as the Bible predicted. So with all this proof and more, people like you can be clearly proven to be the worthless lying spawns of the devil that you really are. Modern atheism is so evil that the people who started your worthless atheist movement in the late 1800s to early 1900s were actually Luciferians. Did you know the foundation of your movement is based on those who actually worshiped the devil by having seances? People like Oscar Wilde, Annie Besant, Mark Twain, Madam Blavatsky, and others were nothing but devil worshipers. You’re just as evil as they were. That’s why you need Jesus. You’re on the road straight to destruction in hell and you need to repent before it’s too late.


      8. Harry,
        In that I don’t believe in your nonsense, trying to threaten me with stories about demons and your bogeyman doesn’t work.
        You choose to put out your nonsense to the public, and surprise, someone counters your claims. I can show that you and Winger are lying, and need to come up with your own interpretations of a bible that Christians can’t agree on. You guys call each others’ words “hellish” and “satanically-inspired” so I’m not impressed.
        You then choose to try to claim that words don’t mean what they do when its inconvenient for your presuppositions. You ignore context, which is hilarious when Christians so often insist that context supports them. The bible is wrong about Tyre, it is wrong about the Exodus, it is wrong about the supposed fabulous palaces and temples, and the “wisest man”. We also have it being wrong about a day having a major earthquake, a dark sky during the day, the dead walking around Jerusalem and a man rising from the dead after a bloody torture death.
        Alas, I haven’t sinned since I don’t believe in your nonsense, and Christians don’t agree on what a sin is. And I correctly call you on your false claims about me; that’s terribly inconvenient for you since you don’t think anyone should counter a TrueChristian™.
        As for historical facts, yep, I presented them and it’s hilarious that you complain since the facts are that Tyre still exists, it never vanished to be forgotten, and archaeologists can find the old bits and new bits, despite your bible’s nonsense. It’s even funnier since other Christians insist that the nonsense about Tyre is “really” a prophecy and it hasn’t happened yet. A pity that you all can’t be on the same page.
        You aren’t any more a “genuine Christian” than any other Christian who disagrees with you. You also disagree with those other Christians who don’t follow your “once saved, always saved” belief. Christians have repeatedly insisted that the verses in Daniel and Revelation are coming to pass and then they never do, and the Christians die just like every human, no magical avoiding death. It is no surprise that you attack Catholics, and try to lie about them being atheists. Plenty of Christians in the EU, but alas they disagree with Harry.
        Genesis 1 doesn’t say that there is water in outer space. It says that there is water in a void, water that this god didn’t create: “1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” It also says that stars are things set into a dome aka “the firmament”, not the vast spheroids of hydrogen fusing we know that they are. These things can fall to the earth, which is silly “13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”
        IT’s always great fun to watch a Christian cling to the science that they think supports their nonsense but ignore science when it shows that they are wrong. How wonderfully hypocritically of you, Harry. As for Isaiah the verse says this “22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:” This is a great example of a Christian trying to make his bible fit reality since it never happens the other way around. We have an earth that is a circle here, not a sphere, and Hebrew has definite words for both. The universe is not a single plane like a tent, but is expanding everywhere. The verse in Jeremiah says that the universe’s object can’t be numbered, but that isn’t true either since it would only take time. YOU also forget to mention that the verse goes onto say “so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.” And that isnt’ true at all of the descendents of “david”. Since we have no evidene of this character from the bible, there are no descendents. Pretty easy to count to zero.
        The verse from Job says “7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” There is no “north” to be stretched, and the earth doesn’t hang on anything, including “nothing”. Where is the hook? There are also no heaven pillars. “The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.”
        People knew that there were currents in the sea long before your ignorant xenophobes invented the bible. Observation is a wonderful thing in humans. People were using them for thousands of years before some Jews tried to claim that they knew everything.
        Egypt was never desolate: devoid of inhabitants and visitors . And no the ancient annals of the Babylonian kings don’t say this at all. And it’s wonderful to see you try to lie to claim that the countries from a couple of thousand years ago are the same as they are now. Christians like you find you have to make up stuff to support your failed presuppositions. Psalm 83 is not a prophecy at all.

        Picking and choosing bible verses to misrepresent them doesn’t work, Harry. You have no “proof” just more lies from a Christan who desperately needs to support his nonsense.

        Nope, no one is a Luciferian, and your god and its supposed archenemy don’t exist. Séances are tricks, and it’s just wonderful to see you lie about other people and bear false witness against them. I certainly don’t need a Jesus that you believe in, Harry, with your intent to ignore what this character said about lying. You try so hard to threaten me and you fail so badly. I don’t need you or your god.


      9. clubshady,

        Here you are again with your lies and deceptions. Yawn. Your bantering and projecting just about put me to sleep. The fact that you feel you have to attack someone with your failed arguments just proves that you’re fearful of the fact God really exists.

        [I can show that you and Winger are lying] Thus far, you’ve miserably failed to do just that. All you’ve done is spew unfounded conjecture with your “I’m superior to you since I’m an atheist and whatever I say is better than whatever you say, BECAUSE I’M AN ATHEIST” mentality. It really doesn’t fly. Even your failed attempt to ignore what the word “forgotten” means is quite laughable.

        [A pity that you all can’t be on the same page.]

        If that’s what you measure the truth by, then I can easily say atheists can’t be believed since they’re not all on the same page. Some atheists believe in the Zeitgeist movement. Others don’t. Some atheists believe they should gather in congregations like churches do so they can strengthen the atheist movement. Others don’t. Some atheists are devoted to Dawkins. Others think Dawkins is full of it. Some atheists call themselves atheist one minute then call themselves agnostic the next minute. Others think you can only be atheist or agnostic, but never both. So given your standard of believability–that everyone in a group must always believe the same to be correct–we can conclude by your standard that your atheism is worthless. You also make the false assumption that anyone and everyone who calls themselves Christian is Christian. The Bible says that Satan masquerades as an angel of light and warns about people who pretend to be Christians, so you’re ignorant to put everyone under one umbrella just so you can conveniently dismiss Christianity’s legitimacy.

        You also have proven that you really don’t care what the historical record says or what science proves in any way that shows how true the Bible is. You’re close-minded and intolerant and only want to indoctrinate with falsehoods, so you shirk doing any research and blindly believe whatever certain other atheists tell you–like a cult member. If you don’t believe in sin, why do you lie so much? If atheists are all about “the facts” why is it that you atheists ignore the facts for the sake of murdering your unborn babies? Science proves that the moment a man’s reproductive cell fertilizes a woman’s reproductive cell, a new individual with it’s own unique human DNA has been created. But you people deny the obvious science so you can murder that person in the womb because you consider them an inconvenient nuisance. You atheists also ignore science when it comes to medical breakthroughs that can help people when they have medical challenges. Instead of promoting things that can help them cope with an incurable illness or to help them with a mental disease, you atheists push doctor-assisted suicide, ignoring the facts, because you see those people as a monetary or societal nuisance whose lives can be dismissed. Atheists love murder because they hate human life.

        [Genesis 1 doesn’t say that there is water in outer space.]

        Wrong. Again, you took a little snippet out of scripture & omitted the context to draw your own unfounded personal conclusion. Genesis 1:7, 8 — “And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven.” So your reading comprehension skills are as lacking as your skills at deception. You also interject what the Bible DOES NOT say, like your assumption the firmament of the stars is a dome or that there were waters “this god didn’t create.” Yet you want to claim that you’re just saying what the Bible says, when you’re actually spreading what YOU THINK or what YOU WANT the Bible to say in order to tear it down. It’s the typical setting up of a straw man argument — a fallacious, illogical philosophical tool.

        [As for Isaiah… We have an earth that is a circle here, not a sphere, and Hebrew has definite words for both.]

        Another straw man argument from you. You are an ignorant unbeliever and therefore cannot rightly divide God’s word of truth. Job 26:10, which was written centuries before Isaiah, established that the Earth was round. It says, “He [God] hath compassed [encircled] the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.” “This verse teaches that God has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters at the boundary of light and darkness. This boundary between light and darkness (day and night) is called the “terminator” since the light stops or “terminates” there. Someone standing on the terminator would be experiencing either a sunrise or a sunset; they are going from day to night or from night to day. The terminator is always a circle, because the earth is round,” (Jason Lisle. The universe confirms the Bible. March 6, 2008). A spherical reality lost on people who wish to falsely attack the Bible like you. When anyone looks at a sphere from one direction, it’s a circle.

        [And that isnt’ true at all of the descendents of “david”. Since we have no evidene [sic] of this character from the bible]

        Wrong again. How close-minded of you not to do any research to find out you’re wrong. “The Tel Dan Inscription: The First Historical Evidence of King David from the Bible”–>

        […the earth doesn’t hang on anything, including “nothing”.]

        More proof that you don’t really have a good handle on defining words in English. Let alone figuring out what the Bible really says.

        […Egypt was never desolate: devoid of inhabitants and visitors . And no the ancient annals of the Babylonian kings don’t say this at all.]

        Says someone who has never studied the inscriptions. Another one of your “I’m an atheist, therefore whatever I say is superior to whatever you say even if I never studied it” arguments spoken from your empty vanity.

        [I don’t need you or your god.]

        Sure. You believe that so much that you feel compelled to attack me and Christianity as if you have to try really really hard to convince yourself not to listen to what you know deep down inside is true — you’re a sinner who needs God really bad because you’re so empty inside.


      10. Harry,

        It’s pretty funny when you try to be insulting with the “clubshady” bit.
        You’ve yet to show that I’ve lied anywhere, Harry. That you choose to continue to ignore what your bible claims your god wants is nothing surprising.
        And for someone who claims he is being “put to sleep”, it’s rather shocking on how much you can write in that state. However, considering the quality, perhaps you are indeed telling the truth about that.
        Sorry, Harry, but I’m not afraid of your god or you. Nice to see that you also have to lie about what I’ve said since I’ve not said that I’m superior because I’m an atheist once. The only one who has come up with that is you. I have evidence that your and Winger claims are wrong and I’ve shown that evidence.
        Nope, you can’t say that atheists can’t be believed when they say that there are no gods since we aren’t on the same page, because we are. Our one unifying factor is that we have come to the conclusion that there are no gods. We certainly can have different philosophies. Your problem is that Christians claim to have the same one and they don’t. But nice try to play pretend otherwise. You have yet to show that your version is the one true Christianity; that you can’t do miracles as promised in the bible shows that you aren’t a Christian at all if we are to accept the bible as true.
        The bible also says that your god works with Satan as well as Satan being a former angel. So? And every Christian insists that they are the real Christians. So?
        I know what the historical record says and it says that the essential events claimed in the bible never happened. Science does not show that the bible is true. I do my research and I have shown that you make false claims. Again, Harry, you try to lie about me and it’s rather pathetic.
        What “facts” do I ignore when it comes to abortion, Harry? Biology doesn’t prove that the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg a new “individual” is created. What is created is a fertilized egg that has the potential to become an individual. What biology does tell us is that between 50% and 60% of conceptions are spontaneously aborted (also known as miscarried). You can see the information here: So, if we go with this (I have seen lower numbers, nearer 15%) we have that your god is aborting quite a few “individuals” if everything in the universe is its will. Are you happy with a god that murders so many “individuals”? I certainly wouldn’t be, if I thought such a being existed.
        I don’t ignore science when it comes to medical breakthroughs. I’m all for those breakthroughs being used to help people. Us humans have invented and discovered a lot of great things, no god needed. Now, I’m sure you’ll try to claim that this god “gave” us these inventions and discoveries, but one has to ask, why was your god such a dick that it took thousands of years to “give” us antibiotics, anesthesia, blood transfusions, etc? And no, Harry, atheists do not “push” doctor assisted suicide. Some don’t agree with that idea, and those of us who are for it, like me, want people who are done suffering to have the right to do what they want with their lives, not obey some ignorant religion that has the delusion that only some god has the “right” to kill people. You certainly choose to lie a lot about atheists, Harry.
        Nope, I didn’t take a snippet of your silly scripture at all. I quoted it and you don’t like what it actually says since it shows that you are wrong again. There is nothing in the bible that has this god creating the water. If so, then quote it, Harry. And you don’t know what “firmament” means do you? Firmament: the arch or vault of the sky. An arch or vault is a dome, a solid item. The bible is not describing the real sky, nor is it correctly describing where water is. We even have other Christians, biblical scholars, agreeing that the Hebrew word raquia means a dome: Like a lot of Christians, these Christians try to claim that the bible shouldn’t be taken literally, at least not where they find it inconvenient. Again, Harry, you fail.
        You also seem to have no idea what a strawman argument is or what the term “encircled” means. It doesn’t mean a sphere, Harry. This is the verse from the KJV “10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.” This says that this god encircled water with boundaries. That only works if one assumes that the earth is flat, not a sphere. And you see that word “until”? that indicates that this is not describing a terminator line. Per the KVJ translators, they have this god encircling the waters with boundaries but only until the day and night come to an end. Other translations have different translations of those words, like: “10 A limit He hath placed on the waters, Unto the boundary of light with darkness.” Young’s Literal translation; “He draws the horizon out over the ocean, sets a boundary between light and darkness.” The Message; “He has inscribed a circular limit (the horizon) on the face of the waters
        At the boundary between light and darkness.” Amplified Bible. In these translations, they are not talking about the day/night terminator line, since that constantly moves and it makes no sense that this is some set boundary.
        For all you accuse me of not reading “correctly”, you are a lovely example of this. That you believe the very silly Christians at AiG is no surprise. A sphere can look like a circle but only in silhouette. This bible repeatedly describes the earth as flat, as the clay under a stamp, as having a tent over it, as having a dome over it. You simply are trying to rewrite the bible to match reality since you know its wrong in what it says. Christians are always trying to do this and it is no surprise that this never works the other way, where science is changed to match the bible. The bible is always changed to match science.
        So, Harry, who are these descendants of David that we should be unable to count because they are so numerous? Surely you can point out someone who is David’s descendant, right?
        As for the tel dan inscription, it has a bit on it that can be translated in a couple of different ways and yep, it most likely says “House of David”. Was there likely a House of David? Probably. Does this show the bible to be true? Nope since it has plenty of mentions of real people and places and yet not one of the essential events of the bible can be shown to have occur. To claim that a mention of a real place or person means the bible is true is as silly as saying that since Greek myths mention real people and places, those gods must be real too, or to say that since the Marvel superhero movies are set in New York City, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Thanos must exist too. We also still have no evidence for the character in the bible, since there is nothing to show that there was a king named David that had 7 or 8 wives (the bible can’t agree on what number), that had a fabulous palace, that had a son the wisest man in the world, fought massive battles, and it has nothing on when this David existed. Christian guess at around 1000 BCE but again, no one can show this David living then. Like Jesus Christ, there could have been some real human that was the kernel for the fabulous characters, but there is no evidence for the characters that the bible claims existed.
        And the earth still doesn’t hang on anything, including hanging on nothing. That is the fantasy of a ignorant author a couple of thousand years ago. Gravity isn’t “hanging”.
        I have studied inscriptions, so again, you fail in your attempts to create lies about me. Again, you ignore word meanings when convenient. Harry, now you need to show me where in the annals of the Babylonian kings say what you claim they say. Surely you can cut and paste that information in, right? And I don’t have to say I’m an atheist and what I say is superior. I just have to show the evidence that Egypt was never devoid of inhabitants and visitors through its history. We have about 5000 years of documentable history through archaeology and no one has found a time period where everyone vanished from the lands of Egypt. Not evenChristian archaeologists looking for evidence to support their religion have found such a thing.
        I don’t need you or your god and that doesn’t preclude me from showing that you are wrong and you try to spread false claims. It’s a nice fantasy you have, that you can read minds. As for being empty inside, nope not at all. That’s just the Christian needing to fantasize that everyone but him is miserable. I’m sure you are not miserable, and outside of this little corner of the internet, you probably have a good life. So do I.


      11. [It’s pretty funny when you try to be insulting with the “clubshady” bit.]

        But you ARE shady. It’s a typical atheist characteristic. You think that by denying the facts and spewing lengthy comments that this will somehow hide the fact you’re a liar. You people are kinda like Joe Biden on the campaign trail–you believe in your version of the truth, not the facts. So shady.

        [… for someone who claims he is being “put to sleep”, it’s rather shocking on how much you can write in that state.]

        You make many assumptions. You assume that I wrote a reply to you as soon as I read your comment. It did almost put me to sleep, so I had to come back to do my reply hours after I read it the first time. Hours later I wasn’t as drowsy.

        [Our one unifying factor is that we have come to the conclusion that there are no gods. We certainly can have different philosophies.]

        But you don’t think Christians can. The Bible clearly states Christians are those who believe Jesus is Lord, i.e. God. But you assume just because someone says they’re Christian and goes to church, even if they dispute the facts about Jesus being God in the Bible, then Christianity isn’t true. True Christians who disagree on miracles happening today still believe Jesus is God. You basically are saying, “It’s ok for us atheists to have different philosophies since we’re superior, but you subhuman Christians aren’t allowed to have different philosophies, so we can automatically dismiss its validity.” That’s faulty logic. Atheists don’t even agree about your so-called “unifying factor” as Neil deGrasse Tyson shows in this video exposing the faulty logic of atheists released several years ago:

        [Biology doesn’t prove that the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg a new “individual” is created.]

        You don’t even know your science well, do you? Just as you quote the Bible then misrepresent what is says, you link the NIH then misrepresent what it says. And an accidental or spontaneous abortion doesn’t justify taking a man-made instrument and ripping apart the body of a developing baby human in the womb. It also doesn’t justify murdering the baby in partial-birth abortions when he or she can survive outside the womb, nor does it justify murdering the baby right after birth like the governors of Virginia and New York promoted months ago at the behest of worthless murderous atheists like you. FYI (not that you even like factual information), biology scientists who write textbooks have acknowledged for years that a fertilized egg is an individual at conception:

        [why was your god such a d*** that it took thousands of years to “give” us antibiotics, anesthesia, blood transfusions, etc?]

        The better question is that if you as an atheist believe humans are so intelligent and spectacular in how they evolved through random processes, why did they take millions or billions of years to develop the skills to come up with medical breakthroughs? And why is it that atheists still haven’t evolved past being the human-hating murderers that they are? You claim you don’t believe in God, but then blame him when he doesn’t do what you want, when you want, how you want. If there was a god subject to the whims and demands of mere mortals, that wouldn’t be much of a god, considering how deceived and mistaken humans can be in many instances, especially people like you. So, basically, you admit you believe in God but that you’re angry with him because he doesn’t say “how high?” whenever you say “jump!” That type of anger spills over into why you atheists tend to hate people who don’t think like you and why you want them murdered. It’s extreme, selfish hubris.

        [We even have other Christians, biblical scholars, agreeing that the Hebrew word raquia means a dome]

        You said this and then link to BioLogos, an organization that doesn’t really believe in the Bible, yet claims it’s Christian. They’re phonies. Like you. They don’t believe Genesis is even true. That allows them to make whatever false claims they wish. Like you. To dismiss what happened in Genesis is to dismiss the real reason Jesus Christ came and who he had to be in order to save mankind. It figures you would use them as a source.

        […this is not describing a terminator line.]

        You’re wrong. And quoting misleading books that claim to be different Bible versions is deceptive sleight of hand. The KJV is the only valid English version of the Bible and it clearly speaks of the terminator line, you liar. You atheists have to lie about the Bible even when you know it’s true because you hate that God hates your sin. So what type of atheist are you? The type that embraces the gay rights nonsense because you love fornication? The type that believes in unfettered abortion because you love the idea of sacrificing human babies for your own selfishness? The type of atheist that loves lying so you can just outright claim the Bible isn’t true just so you can have your lies? The kind of atheist that was abused as a child and has to blame God because you had a bad daddy or mommy or other evil family member or family friend that abused you? Which one is it? or is it all of the above? Stop blaming God for what humans have done wrong.

        [We have about 5000 years of documentable history through archaeology and no one has found a time period where everyone vanished from the lands of Egypt.]

        You’re assuming that every document that ever existed about human history has been discovered. Archaeologists are still making discoveries about ancient times. Just recently they found a mass grave in Peru where the Incas sacrificed children to their false gods, which is similar to how you atheists call for the sacrificial bloodshed of unborn humans for your god of selfishness. Just because something hasn’t been discovered yet doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. If you knew anything about archaeology or history, you would know that one basic fact.

        [Harry, atheists do not “push” doctor assisted suicide. Some don’t agree with that idea, and those of us who are for it, like me, want people who are done suffering to have the right to do what they want with their lives]

        You blatantly contradict yourself. You deny atheists push assisted suicide then you admit you push for it. Dr. Kevorkian was an avowed atheist (i.e. someone who knows God exists but denies God exists for the sake of their pet sin). So is Derek Humphry of the Hemlock Society who work worldwide pushing for the legalization of euthanasia/assisted suicide. Liar. The people who bought into his movement were the atheists who are now pushing for doctor-assisted suicide. They got it done in the Netherlands, Belgium, Oregon, Washington state, Canada, Montana, and Vermont. You falsely claim it has to do with being merciful. When it gets passed, people who have nothing wrong with them are encouraged to do it, like this 24-year-old woman in Belgium–>

        Atheists are liars and murderers. Your history proves it over and over. When atheists rise to power using their worthless human-hating socialism, they murder. From Lenin to Stalin to Mao to Hitler to North Korea’s Kim family, to Pol Pot, to Cuba’s Castros–murdering atheists one and all. Even when they don’t have political office, they murder. Gavrilo Princip who assassinated Franz Ferdinand and started WWI, Margaret Sanger, an “atheist” Luciferian who founded Planned Parenthood and loved the idea of killing unborn black babies, Lee Harvey Oswald, the Virginia Tech shooter, Dr. Kevorkian, Jeffrey Dahmer, Devin Patrick Kelley the Texas church shooter, and now Connor Betts in Dayton, Ohio–murderous atheists one and all. You atheists have a special appetite for bloodlust against the innocent that’s straight from the pit of hell.


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