As I’ve stated before in my writings, it is all too often assumed that atheists are truthful people. When atheists debate or question or mock Christianity, many people listening to them have this tendency to automatically assume that since it came from the mouth of an atheist, then they must have a valid point because they assume the atheist or agnostic is neutral. This couldn’t be further from the truth. When it comes to religious and moral issues and how they may relate to science or life in general, everyone has a bias or agenda, including the atheists and agnostics.
I know atheists and agnostics aren’t truthful based on what the Bible says. The Bible has shown itself to be trustworthy and sound in it’s historical facts, scientific facts, and spiritual facts. So when we are told in Romans 1:19-21 that God has placed the knowledge of his existence all around us and inside all of us, then the fact that a person calls themselves an atheist or agnostic lets us know they are lying to themselves. Why? Based on this scripture in Romans 1, there is no such thing as an atheist or agnostic.
This is the reason Psalm 14:1 says, “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” If a person has built-in knowledge that God exists, yet they deny it and swear up and down it can’t be true, then they really are a fool. Denying God’s existence is like denying one’s own conscience. Oddly enough, that’s exactly what people are doing in our times of growing immorality. I refer again to Romans 1, which is like a primer on not only atheist and agnostic views, but on all sin.
Romans 1 tells us why the atheist and agnostic choose not to believe in God and question his existence:
- They prefer to exchange God’s perfect standards for corrupt images they conjure up in their own minds of how a god should be (v. 23).
- God, being the gentleman that he is, allows them the free will to think and do the dishonorable things that contribute to their wicked ways (v. 24)
- They would rather exchange God’s truth for men’s lies (v. 25)
- Atheists and agnostics hold fast to human lies because they would rather worship the creature (themselves) instead of the Creator (v. 25)
- Since they told God to get lost, he backed off and they went after every ungodly thing imaginable to please themselves, exalt themselves, and to take pleasure in others who do the wicked things that they enjoy (vv. 26-32). They question God’s existence because they think this gives them the freedom to do as they please and to deny that judgment is coming.
Refusing to retain God in their knowledge leads them to foolishness. If you read Proverbs, you’ll find that the atheist and agnostic has several character traits of the fool in many places where “fool” or “foolish” is mentioned. Here’s a sample:
- The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction (Proverbs 1:7). The universe screams intelligent design by an extremely powerful Being who is outside of space, matter, and time–the system of created things, but they despise this wisdom and it takes them down the path of falsehoods like macroevolution.
- He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool (Proverbs 10:18). They pretend not to hate people who aren’t as “enlightened” as they are, and they love to slander God and his people.
- The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise (Proverbs 12:15).
- …it is abomination to fools to depart from evil (Proverbs 13:19). They love their sin and think it’s utterly hateful for them to turn from it.
- A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident (Proverbs 14:16). The atheist and agnostic is confident in their wickedness and fiercely determined to stick with it.
These are the reasons why they need our loving prayers. Only God can soften their hearts.
Harry A. Gaylord
sunandshield.wordpress.com 
Such a mishmash of malice to end with feigned expressions of compassion. Planks and splinters and all that.
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My love and concern for atheists is unfeigned I assure you. Former atheists and agnostics make up the ranks of Christians. As far as planks & splinters go, mine were removed by the Lord Jesus which is why I can see so clearly to help out others with these writings.
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“The Bible has shown itself to be trustworthy and sound in it’s historical facts, scientific facts, and spiritual facts. ”
And here I stopped reading, because I couldn’t stop laughing.
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Your laughter reminds me of another Proverb that says “fools make a mock at sin.” But God is not mocked, as the scripture says, for his words are spirit and they are life. If you follow the trail of evidence the Bible renders you’ll be amazed at the awesome truths you’ll discover. Plugging your ears and closing your eyes while screaming “LA LA LA I can’t hear you! BLAH BLAH BLAH I’m ignoring you!” just brings more blindness.
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Honestly, please continue. It’s quite amusing to see someone who doesn’t open his eyes and ears, but instead sings “Lalalala! I can’t hear you, there really IS evidence!!! Lalalala!” accusing me of being blind.
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I would comment, but I guess I’d only be trying to deceive you with my wicked ways (suppressing laughter). I love how you forfeited individual thought and let the Bible do your thinking for you. ‘The Bible says Atheists are bad and that’s good enough for me!’ Lol
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Robert, thanks for your remarks. Is everything you ever learned based on individual thought? Are your opinions that you use to shore up your atheism solely based on individual thought? It has been my experience in talking to atheists that they base their opinions on what some philosopher or professor or scientist has stated. Your case is probably no different. So don’t you think the individual thought argument is disingenuous?
The Bible has stood the test of time for its accuracy and truth. We are even living in a time where prophecies it predicts have been and are being fulfilled. I’ve written several other posts at this blog that point out the overwhelming evidence, if you care to read them. When something is as tried and true as the Bible, one can see that it’s a manual to give guidance to those who want to know how to navigate this life. I call that reaching out for help when you need it, not forfeiting one’s thoughts.
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So Mr.Gaylord,you claim to know atheists and agnostics aren’t truthful based on what the Bible says,but by the same token i can prove your Bible you use for a thinking road map is a false crooked road.Your Bible has more contradictions,discrepancies and outright lies in it than you can ever begin to cover up with twisted serpent like trails you use.Let’s look at a few of it’s slippery crooked trails.Your Bible over and over claims the earth is stable and can not be moved,but the truth is the the earth rotates(moves)24 hours a day 365 days a year.Over and over it claims the earth has foundations,but it has no foundations it floats on nothing in space without a foundation.Your Bible writers were not inspired by any god,all the way from Genesis to Revelarion these writers thought the earth flat and the sun did the turning and went under the earth causing night and day.That is exactly what the writer of Joshua 10:12-14 thought,this writer even lies and says the “Sun did Stand Still”.If god had inspired this then he forgot to tell the writer it is the earth that rotates.
In 1633 the Catholic church believing the Bible and that god inspired the Bible and it was truth used Ps.93:1,Ps.104:5,1 Chron.16:30,& Eccl.1:5 to attack Galileo’s theory that the earth orbits the sun,and that the earth is not the center of the universe,later the Catholic church and your Bible were both proved to be liars and Galileo correct.Your Bible leaves the impression that the earth and man are only six to ten thousand years old,this is an easily proved lie.
All the claimed prophecies Jesus supposedly fulfilled are not so.If you read those claimed prophecies fulfilled in the O.T.it is easy to see they were never prophecies to begin with or were never Messiah prophecies.The 4 gospel writers pulled lines and verses out of context with surrounding verses and made them seem prophecies fulfilled.I will be happy to prove that to you if you are interseted in real proof.Atheists and agnostics unlike christian apologetics require the real truth,not biblical mind control,biblical brainwashing and blind faith to cover up biblical contradictions and lies.It is christians and christian apologetics and Bible biased supposed scholars who are lying to the people,atheists and agnostics research for the real truth.The Bible has not been proven by the test of time to be truth,i can write a large book on all of it’s mistakes,contradictions,discrepancies and lies.
Sincerely ,In Real Truth,
Jay Osborne .
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Jay,
Your statements are assumptions and falsehoods that tend to be repeated by atheists as if they’re parrots. The only difference between an atheist and a parrot is that the parrot has sense enough to fly out of the cage when it sees an opening, but I digress.
I’ve covered the subjects you’ve raised in other posts, including the fact Galileo was a professing Christian who criticized his Inquisitors for misrepresenting what the Bible actually says–just as you have done. I highly doubt you’ve actually read the Bible. You, and others like you, are simply repeating what others have told you without investigating the evidence. We can simply look at the 10 commandments and see that atheists such as yourself are like the rest of us–sinners in need of a savior.
For instance, the 3rd commandment says not to use the Lord’s name in vain. I’ll bet you’re like the rest of us and you have used his name in vain. How do we know this is wrong? Well, does it make you happy when someone gets all up in your grill and says the GD word at you? If God isn’t real, why do even atheists get upset when the Lord’s name is used as a curse word against them? You inherently know violation of the 3rd commandment is wrong, that’s why.
The 5th commandment tells us to honor our father and mother, implying that this includes any elder person who helped raise us. Have you ever talked back to any such person in your life when they were trying to do right by you? Well then, you’ve done something evil. How do you know it’s evil? Because if your child disrespected you, you would get angry. And if someone called you a son of a you-know-what, you would be ready to fight because they dishonored your mother by saying that. You inherently know the 5th commandment is true.
The 9th commandment says you should not bear false witness (i.e. lie) against your neighbor. Have you ever told a lie or repeated an unfounded rumor about a classmate or neighbor or co-worker simply because you didn’t like them? Then you bore false witness. How do you know this is wrong? Because if someone does it to you, you’re ready to argue or take them to task in another way for what they said about you. You inherently know that bearing false witness is wrong.
Everyone has inherent knowledge that the 10 commandments are true and right. You would be hard pressed to find a culture on Earth that would dispute this. So where did we get this common inherent knowledge of right and wrong that we universally tend to judge others by? So the Bible is true after all and you know it. So why are you angry at God?
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Well Mr.Gaylord why didn’t you notify me that you had attempted(i say attempted)to answer me i kept waiting but thought you just decided to ignore me.Then i began searching your site and after about an hour i finally found my email and your supposed answer.My statements and what you call assumptions and falsehoods are not false but yours are.I read most of your answers to people on another part of your blog and if i answered all the garbage you poked at them i’d be writing day and night for weeks.I spent 32 years of my life in christianity i don’t need you quoting the 10 commandments to me or quoting other scriptures as proof,that is called circular reasoning you believe it so just because the Bible claims it’s so.
Let’s look at a few other things you have on another blog,on one you claim Isa.40:22 as a proof the Bible is so.Isa.40:22 does not claim the earth is a circle.The Hebrew word translated circle there is CHUWG it does not connote a circular or sphere shaped earth,it describes the earth as being a flat disc such as a frisbee or pancake just as your Bible from Genesis to Revelation claims the earth is flat.If the writer of Isa.40:22 had described the earth as a sphere or round shaped earth he would have used the Hebrew word DUWR which is translated as ball in Isa.22:18.So you are incorrect,like you called me it is a falsehood and a wrong assumption.
Another of your falsehoods is Micah 5:2 it was never,ever about a place where the Messiah was to be born.The writer of Matthew pulls Micah 5:2 out of context with surrounding verses and makes it seem a prophecy fulfilled.Read Micah 5:1-6 in context,notice verse one mentions troops(army)verse six shows Assyria wasted with war,these verses are about a military leader which Jesus never was.Anytime you see Bethlehem Ephratah connected together it does not mean the town of Bethlehem it means the man named Bethlehem,who had a clan called Ephrathites as shown in Ruth 1:1-2 and other places in the O.T.Notice the writer of Matthew in Matt.2:6 delibertly leaves out the word Ephratah that’s in Micah 5:2 and adds the word Juda to make it sound like it meant the town of Bethlehem.It’s a deliberate lie by the writer of Matthew.If it didn’t take so long i could go through all the claimed prophecies fulfilled by Jesus and show they were either never a prophecy to begin with or were not prophecies about a Messiah,they are pulled out of context with surrounding verses and made to seem prophecies fulfilled.Your answers to most of these people that disagree with your theory are full of falsehoods and lies.Your Bible is not inerrant,infallible or even near god inspired.If you answer this let me know i don’t usually go back to sites like yours unless you post an answer and send me the link.
In Real Truth,
Jay Osborne
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Jay,
You’re not entitled to get a notification from me if I respond to your comment. There’s a button to click for that at this website so it’s up to you to click the RSS comment button.
[I spent 32 years of my life in Christianity]
That doesn’t mean anything. Just because something is parked in a garage doesn’t mean it’s a motor vehicle. Just because you attended church or claim to be Christian doesn’t make you a Christian. My comment was that you probably haven’t read the Bible for yourself. You never were a Christian. Those who are truly saved endure in their faith to the end. You were a faker, phony, and a poser for 32 years and then moved on to something else that’s fake that was to your liking. You just grabbed on to what sounded good from other atheists & repeated it back like a parrot because you want to justify your sin. Your most recent comment shows it.
[ i don’t need you quoting the 10 commandments to me or quoting other scriptures as proof,that is called circular reasoning]
You haven’t given any proof that my statements re: the 10 commandments are circular reasoning. I provided evidence from everyday examples of how anyone & everyone can see that the 10 commandments are true. You simply want to deny the validity of that evidence because you wish to justify your sin by dismissing what you inherently know is true. I noticed also that you didn’t attempt to refute any of the concrete examples I gave that demonstrate how atheists even attest to the truth of God’s laws by their inherent knowledge of what’s right & what’s wrong.
[The Hebrew word translated circle there is CHUWG it does not connote a circular or sphere shaped earth,it describes the earth as being a flat disc such as a frisbee or pancake]
Again, this is proof that you’re just repeating what you got from other atheists. All they’ve done is taken a word & applied the definition they wish so they can attack the Bible & justify their sin. The context of the scripture renders the definition. If we compare the context of Isaiah 40:22 with Job 26:10 where the word is also used, we get the true definitions, such as encircle, encompass, surrounded, arched, vaulted. These tell us it speaks of spherical shapes. Job 26:10 is a reference to the earth’s terminator.
[If the writer of Isa.40:22 had described the earth as a sphere or round shaped earth he would have used the Hebrew word DUWR which is translated as ball in Isa.22:18.]
Duwr wouldn’t have been used because the context of Isaiah 22:18 is tossing around an object violently and haphazardly, which doesn’t describe how the Earth moves.
[Anytime you see Bethlehem Ephratah connected together it does not mean the town of Bethlehem]
You wish. This is just your own private interpretation that you wish to be true to justify your own sin. Micah 5:1-6 talks about Israel going through a period where it’s enemies would prevail, but holds the promise that a ruler would arise out of the town of Bethlehem to deliver them–a Messiah. It was to let them know God would never forsake them even in tough times. Genesis 35:19 & 48:7 says clearly that Bethlehem & Ephratah are the same place. It was within the area where the tribe of Judah settled and where King David was born. Even ancient maps & the secular historical records that archaeologists have used to explore that area prove that. So not only do you NOT know the Bible, you don’t know your history. Typical of atheists. Make things up as you go along to inject your lies to deny the truth. Lying is part of how you people operate.
You have proven Romans 1 correct. People like you exchange the truth of God for your lies.
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And one more thing, Jay. The historical record proves that the Christian church never taught that the Earth was flat.
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Well Harry you are nothing but a bag of wind,you claim without even knowing me (a judgment)that i was never a christian,that i never read the Bible for myself,i tell you what i would be willing for us to go in a room with one other person and let the third person mention just a part of some scripture and from memory i can find that scripture in the Bible before you can.I know your book the Bible very well.So you can stop lying about me .It’s not odd that you can’t answer skeptics,there are over 500 different christian denominations in the U.S.A.all of you reading the same book,the Bible but none of you coming to the same conclussion of what it says,and all of you claiming only you are correct in understanding it.You can not even get along and agree with other christians so how could you expect to ever convince a skeptic?
It takes a biblically mind controlled,biblically brainwashed w/blind faith idiot to claim your Bible has no contradictions,discrepancies and many outright lies in it,and to foolishly claim god inspired such a book.You are also an idiot in your excuse to make the Hebrew word in Isa.40:22 mean a round circular or sphere shaped earth.And another idiot to claim Micah 5:2 meant a place where a Messiah was to be born.Talk about a private interpretation that’s all you have,it’s your way or the highway only you according to you could be correct.I believe in the truth whether it comes from an atheist or a Bible thumping person such as you.One of you are wrong and in this case no doubt it’s you.Also notice what an idiot the writer of the book of Matthew is who did a lot of screwing up,in Matthew 21:5 this writer mis-understands Zech.9:9 and thinks it means 2 donkeys and so in Matt.21:5 has Jesus riding into Jerusalem straddling 2 donkeys at one time,i can just see the people laughing at Jesus trying to straddle 2 donkeys at one time.Are you laughing,i am? Wonder what lame excuse you can come up with about this?
I am barely scratching the surface of idiot biblical writers so who is it you or i that doesn’t understand the Bible?Compare John 5:31 with John 8:18 supposedly the same writer claiming opposite same things.Jesus in Matthew 4:1-11 says Jesus went into the wilderness alone to be tempted how does the writer of Matthew know what was said and done between Jesus and the devil?You are the nutty professor claiming the Bible does not teach from Genesis to Revelation that the earth is flat,again read Matt.4:8 only on a flat earth could you go up on a high enough mountain to see all the kingdoms of the world on a round or sphere shaped earth it is impossible to see all the kingdoms of the world.Read Revelation 7:1 a round earth can not have 4 corners only a flat earth would have 4 corners.It plainly says 4 corners of the earth.
Another biblical thing you have no understanding of is Jesus could never be the Jewish Messiah the two geneaologies in Matthew chapter one and Luke chapter three could never,ever allow Jesus bloodline to connect him to David or Soloman as the O.T.says the Messiah would come from because Joseph was not Jesus father and if you studied the O.T.fully you’d see tribal bloodlines could not come through the mother it could come through the father only.Your Bible has more holes than Swiss cheese,learn to research better instead of biblical mind control.
In Real Truth,
Jay
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Jay,
Your comments are simply smoke & mirrors repeated over & over by atheists. Call me all the names you wish, but you’ve shown by your words what type of person you are & your comments continue to show how accurate my conclusions about you are. Once again you’ve shown by your comments that atheists read into the Bible what they want to so they can then attack it. You’re bearing false witness.
I noticed in your statements how you avoid dealing with the facts I brought up about the 10 commandments & how everyone inherently knows they are true & right, including you. That’s all the evidence anyone needs to realize God exists. But here you are again blathering with smoke & mirrors to avoid discussing the fact you know God exists. You’re just angry at him. Kind of like a petulant child who cries out “God since you’re not going to do things the way I want you to do things, I’m going to get my revenge by not believing in you.” You’re not being honest with yourself or with me. Why are you angry at God, who you inherently know exists?
[It’s not odd that you can’t answer skeptics]
Actually, I have answered skeptics quite well. But atheists refuse to accept historical, scientific, or spiritual facts that provide abundant proof of the Bible’s accuracy because you’re afraid to admit you’re self-deceived & that you’re just angry at the God you know exists, so you can never bring yourself to openly admit how solid the evidence is that proves believing in the Bible is faith based on overwhelming facts, not blindness.
[You can not even get along and agree with other christians so how could you expect to ever convince a skeptic?]
You’re making the broad assumption here that truth is based on everyone being in agreement in the Christian world. You’re also assuming that convincing skeptics of biblical truth is solely based on human accomplishment. Neither assumption is true. Paul disagreed with Barnabas in the book of Acts. They were both great men of God. But their disagreement did not stop God from saving lost souls. One person plants the gospel, another person gives additional teaching to water the gospel, but God causes it to increase. “So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.”
This statement is also hypocritical on your part. If I replace “Christians” with “atheists” in your statement, you can see what I mean. “You [atheists] can not even get along and agree with other atheists so how could you expect to ever convince a skeptic?” Yet even though there are atheists who disagree with each other on what tenets prove atheism, you still try to convince non-atheists of your position. So why fault Christians who do the same?
[It takes a biblically mind controlled,biblically brainwashed w/blind faith idiot to claim your Bible has no contradictions,discrepancies and many outright lies in it,and to foolishly claim god inspired such a book]
Actually, it takes a person who is alert to what is going on in the world and knows history, science, & spiritual facts to see how faith in Jesus is not blind at all. It’s fact-based faith. Atheists claim that once you die, you’re gone for good. You just cease to exist. The Bible says people come back from the dead. There have been plenty of people who died, then came back to life. Click here for an example of that. If a person ceases to exist when they die & becomes nothing, then how can they rise from the dead as the same person?
If the Bible isn’t true, then why are we seeing nations worldwide trying to move towards one world government & one world religion, just as the Bible predicts in Daniel & Revelation? You accuse me of lying about you & that upsets you, because you assume it’s wrong to lie about people. How do you know lying is wrong? You’ve proven my point about the 10 commandments. You inherently know it because someone higher than man established self-evident truths that all men know.
[in Matthew 21:5 this writer mis-understands Zech.9:9 and thinks it means 2 donkeys and so in Matt.21:5 has Jesus riding into Jerusalem straddling 2 donkeys at one time,i can just see the people laughing at Jesus trying to straddle 2 donkeys at one time]
It’s actually you who doesn’t understand scripture, so you put your own feeble, false assumptions into it to try to tear it down. You err, not knowing the scriptures. Nowhere in this scripture does it say that Jesus “straddled” two donkeys. Zechariah 9 says he would ride on an ass & a colt, or young donkey. Matthew says Jesus was “sitting” on the ass & the colt. This scripture also tells us what this meant. The disciples put clothes on the backs of both animals & “set him thereon.” When a young donkey is ridden for the first time, as was the case here, sometimes the young donkey’s parent or an older experienced donkey is kept right beside the young donkey to keep it calm & manageable. So Jesus was likely sitting on the young donkey with both legs to the side & draped over the back of the older donkey. That would be considered “sitting” or being “set” on both animals. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure that out or knock down your ridiculous statement that you were just repeating like a mindless parrot.
[Compare John 5:31 with John 8:18 supposedly the same writer claiming opposite same things]
Again, you err, not knowing the scriptures. Talk about blindness. The context gives the meaning. In John 5, Jesus is saying that if he were the only one bearing witness of himself, he would be totally unreliable. Then he says that John the Baptist, God the Father, and the Old Testament scriptures are all his witnesses that support his witness of himself. In John 8:18, he repeats what he said earlier. He is bearing witness on his own behalf & the Father is also his witness. You lack reading comprehension skills if you think they’re contradictory, seeing things that aren’t there because you’re spiritually blind.
[Jesus in Matthew 4:1-11 says Jesus went into the wilderness alone to be tempted how does the writer of Matthew know what was said and done between Jesus and the devil?]
Jesus proved to be a reliable witness. He was never known to lie & the disciples saw all the awesome, supernatural things he did, including changing their worthless lives to something precious and priceless. So when Jesus told them what happened in the wilderness, they knew he was for real. And when he rose from the dead, a truth that has never been proven wrong (& never will be proven wrong), it showed there’s no valid reason NOT to believe what is written about this incident.
[…read Matt.4:8 only on a flat earth could you go up on a high enough mountain to see all the kingdoms of the world on a round or sphere shaped earth it is impossible to see all the kingdoms of the world]
You’re making assumptions once again based on your limited understanding. You assume there are no spirit beings. You assume that the earth would have to be flat. You assume that since there are no spirit beings, no one can see the world’s kingdoms in an instant. You assume that man’s limited knowledge of the universe is the only measuring stick that we must judge all of history and science by. And by making your assumptions, you cut yourself off from truth that exists beyond matter, space, and time. It’s surprising you make this statement in the times we live in now. You can jump on a plane & see all the kingdoms of the world. You can also logon to webcams set up in virtually every nation to see all the kingdoms of the world in a relatively short amount of time.
There are intelligent spiritual beings in this universe who are far more advanced than we will ever be in this life. So it would be nothing for an advanced being like the devil to show the kingdoms of the world in an instant. If you believe in the lies about space aliens on other planets, then why do you find it hard to believe in beings that exist beyond your five senses?
[Read Revelation 7:1 a round earth can not have 4 corners only a flat earth would have 4 corners]
Proof once again you really don’t know the Bible. Do you take everything literally that you read in literature & on the Internet? I guess you’ve never had a conversation with a person who mentioned scouring the “four corners of the globe.” The four corners of the Earth are simply figurative of north, south, east, & west. This just shows how ridiculous atheists are. So hellbent on disproving the truths in the Bible that you will twist it to mean what it doesn’t mean to land your false accusations against it.
[Another biblical thing you have no understanding of is Jesus could never be the Jewish Messiah the two geneaologies in Matthew chapter one and Luke chapter three could never,ever allow Jesus bloodline to connect him to David]
Once again you prove yourself to be a mindless parrot who just repeats what other atheists say ad infinitum without thinking things through because you have to disbelieve the Bible since you don’t want to repent of the sins you love even when those sins bring you dissatisfaction and emptiness and problems. You’re making false assumptions. Ancient Jewish genealogies were flexible. Sometimes women were included (Numbers 27:1), sometimes beloved servants were included as sons, a son-in-law could be included as a natural-born son, they could skip generations and list a grandson or great grandson as a son or list a grandfather or great grandfather as a father.
It would be possible for Joseph to be included as a son and for one of the genealogies to be Mary’s. And since Jesus was adopted by Joseph, he would have all of the same rights and responsibilities of a biological son. So Jesus could, in fact, claim to be David’s legitimate descendant through Joseph and/or Mary. Your emphatic “never, ever” statement is just plain wrong & shows you don’t know the Bible or how Hebrew genealogies worked.
You atheists can be as adamant as you want to be in your self-serving, self-deceptive beliefs, but I for one will always assume when you try to be emphatic about your positions that you are lying or ignorant or both. Why? Because all of you have the self-evident truth of the existence of God encoded in the very fiber of your being. So lie to yourselves and others all you want, but I’m not buying it. I’ll ask again–why are you so mad at God? Is it because of your biological father? Are you wrongfully blaming him for someone’s death? What’s the real story behind your pretending to be atheist?
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Harry,like i said before you are full of hot air and smoky mirrors,this is proved by your long ranting supposed answer above.First as usual you lie about me i have never said i did not believe in God,however i guarantee that it is not the god of the Bible.The real true fact is that you can not prove there is a god and i can not prove there isn’t a god,it is hard to prove or disprove an invisible inaudible sky god.You claim i am reading into the Bible what i want to while it is you who are doing exactly this,nowhere does Matt.21:5 say they put clothes on the back of an ass,it plainly says (quote) Thy King cometh unto thee,meek and sitting upon an ass,and a colt the foal of an ass(unquote)that plainly says he sat on an ass And a colt the foal of an ass,that’s 2 assses he sat upon.DUM,DUM.Seems like your Bible says not to add to or take away from what the Bible says,you added clothes above and take away the fact that it says he rode upon both asses.
Apologetics like yourself are the ones that twist what the Bible says and other ancient writinbgs,in your ignorant effort to make your Bible inerrant,infallible and god inspired.Your supposed answers above are so ignorant they don’t even deserve an answer from me.Because they are your assumtion theory no facts just assumptions and additions.The 10 commandments do not prove there is a god like you claim,any idiot should know you should not kill,or steal,or commit adultery with someone beside your wife,i would bet you break the 4th,commandment every week,because you go to church on a Sunday not the 7th.day Sabbath as is commanded and nowhere does the N.T.claim the Sabbath was changed,Constantine about 325 A.D.is the only one who said keep Sunday as a holy day.You can twist and squirm all you want to but supposedly god tells you not to kill then this supposed god killed the first born of Eygpt and in Numbers 31:17-18 tells the Israelites to kill every male and the babies and all the women except the virgins(those not knowing man by lying with him)now why not kill the virgins also,he says keep them alive for yourselves,it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out he meant keep the virgins for sexual fun.This is a god who first says thou shalt not kill then turns around and kills himself then tells the Israelites to murder even babies who had done nothing to this jealous idiotic god.Go ahead twist this around to your idiotic mind controlled theory and make excuses for your butchering,murdering god.Me i would never serve a supposed evil god like the Bible god.You also need to re-visit your O.T.you are completely wrong claiming Jesus tribal bloodline could come through the mother or by adoption or anyone not the Jewish father.What you are showing me is you have no idea what the Bible actually says,you just twist it to fit your own warped ignorant theory.Talk about a mindless parrot,you can’t even squalk any truth.
I am not mad at god because the Bible god could never be a true loving god.Your Bible in Psalm 84:11 plainly tells you that the O.T.God is the sun,Malachi 4:2 that most christians and apologetics claim is about Jesus also says he will be the SUN (not son)of Righteousness,your N.T.claims “Jesus is the Light of the World”of course the sun is the light of the world,you Harry worship a sun god.No contemporary historian or philospher of Jesus supposed time knows one thing about a miracle worker,crucified and resurrected from the dead Jesus,and there were plenty of historians and philosophers writing during thgis supposed time,the N.T.including the 4 gospels are not historical documents they are religious works.Would religions lie,answer that for yourself do you believe in the Muslim god Allah do you believe in Buddism or Hinduism face it religions lie like dogs.There were plenty of Jesus’es(people named Jesus )in the first century but not a trace of the miracle worker,crucified and resurrected from the dead Jesus,you worship a SUN GOD developed by the Roman Empire and later the Roman Catholic church,the Roman Empire needed a state religion to better govern over the different nationalities it governed over who had many different sun gods they worshipped christianity and the Jesus tale was Constantine’s answer for a state religion.Now you can start twisting and making excuses again for your false belief theory.
In Real Truth,
Jay Osborne
P.S.If you are not supposed to tell me when you post an answer why does it say below “notify me of follow up comments via email”?
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@Jay,
[First as usual you lie about me i have never said i did not believe in God,however i guarantee that it is not the god of the Bible]
In your very first comment here you implied several times you were speaking as an atheist, so if anyone is lying, it’s you. For instance, you said “Mr.Gaylord,you claim to know atheists and agnostics aren’t truthful based on what the Bible says,but by the same token i can prove your Bible you use for a thinking road map is a false crooked road.” Further on in your first comment you said “Atheists and agnostics unlike christian apologetics require the real truth,not biblical mind control…atheists and agnostics research for the real truth.” By making such statements, you put yourself in the position of being an atheist or agnostic. Could it be that you’re beginning to see why it’s ridiculous to claim atheism or agnosticism, so now you deny what you said earlier?
Your arguments are too weak to guarantee the only god isn’t the God of the Bible.
[The real true fact is that you can not prove there is a god and i can not prove there isn’t a god,it is hard to prove or disprove an invisible inaudible sky god]
Calling God an invisible & inaudible sky god is a phrase I’ve only heard used by atheists. You’re contradicting yourself by saying you never claimed to be atheist but then this statement by you is a statement I’ve only seen used by atheists. God can be proven because as Romans 1 says, he is evident by the things he has made.
Anyone who is honest with themselves can look at our universe and tell it is very orderly and that things must be fine-tuned, or meet specific designed constants, for life to thrive here on Earth as I discussed here. We can thus prove God’s existence by the Teleological Argument–every design had a designer; the universe has highly complex design; therefore, the universe had a designer.
We can also prove God’s existence by the Cosmological Argument. The second law of thermodynamics, the universe’s expansion, the radiation afterglow in space, the existence of galaxy seeds in space, and Einstein’s theory of general relativity all point to the fact that our universe had a sudden beginning that began out of nothing. This obviously tells us someone who exists outside of space, matter, and time had to begin the existence of space, matter, and time. I go into further details in three previous posts where even Nobel prize winning scientists admitted this body of evidence points specifically to the God of the Bible:
https://sunandshield.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/proof-of-gods-existence-in-the-cosmos-pt-1/
https://sunandshield.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/proof-of-gods-existence-in-the-cosmos-pt-2/
https://sunandshield.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/proof-of-gods-existence-in-the-cosmos-pt-3/
The God of the Bible also proves his existence by prophecies he made in the Bible that have proven to be fulfilled in history and are still in the process of being fulfilled today, including the prophecy I mentioned before where Revelation predicts that the world population would move toward combining all religions into one world religion, as is happening today. Not even you can deny that fact & expect anyone to take you seriously.
[…nowhere does Matt.21:5 say they put clothes on the back of an ass…]
You’re attempting sleight of hand trickery with this statement. When I responded to your talking about Jesus “straddling” two donkeys, I was speaking of the incident as a whole (as implied in my comment), not just one specific verse. Matthew 21:7 says the disciples “brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.” Therefore, your argument is foolish.
[Your supposed answers above are so ignorant they don’t even deserve an answer from me]
Actually, you know my answers have been right on point which is why you feel the strong need to continue responding and to call me ignorant. My responses are shaking you to your very foundations because it’s hard for you to kick against the pricks of your conscience by God. Bitter much?
[The 10 commandments do not prove there is a god like you claim]
The cultures of the world are so vast and different from each other in their customs, fashion, foods, and governments. But universally, they all have laws that agree with some of the commandments. Only someone higher than man could make such a thing possible and to deny it doesn’t change that simple fact.
[…Sabbath as is commanded and nowhere does the N.T.claim the Sabbath was changed,Constantine about 325 A.D.is the only one who said keep Sunday as a holy day.]
Jay, you didn’t do your homework. Do you know how to think for yourself? Ancient writers who came before Constantine, the pagan who pretended to be Christian, spoke of Christians worshiping on the first day of the week. Those writers include Justin Martyr in the early 2nd century (100s AD), Clement of Alexandria in the early 3rd century (200s AD), Ignatius of Antioch in the early 2nd century, and Pliny the Younger in the early 2nd century.
Again you show you don’t know the Bible. Acts 20:7 says the believers assembled for fellowship on the first day of the week. In 1 Corinthians 16:2, Paul told believers to take up offerings for poor saints when they assembled on the first day of the week and says in 2 Corinthians 9:12-13 that such an offering on the first day was ministry. Paul said in Colossians 2 that believers were not to be judged on spirituality with regard to “meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days”. The Sabbath was symbolic for taking time off from physical activity to rest & be spiritually revived. Constantine had nothing to do with it. Jesus’ resurrection did. The first day became the Lord’s day.
[This is a god who first says thou shalt not kill then turns around and kills himself then tells the Israelites to murder even babies who had done nothing to this jealous idiotic god.]
Killing in self defense or to punish for sin is allowed in the Bible. I find it odd that you’re so quick to talk about God ordering to kill people for righteous purposes when atheists such as yourself are known to kill for unrighteous purposes. I point to Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, and Mussolini as Exhibit A. I point to atheist serial killers Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer, and Columbine killers Harris and Klebold as Exhibit B. Atheistic thinking breeds mass murder and they killed more people in the 20th century than anyone else and more than ancient Israel who were right to do what they did. God sees sin as more serious than humans do, so when a society such as the Canaanites participated in human sacrifice, rape, homosexuality, adultery, prostitution, and bestiality, they had to be punished by extermination. They had many chances to repent, like the prostitute Rahab and her family did, but they chose not to. The virgins were saved because they were kept pure from the sexual sins and the sexually transmitted diseases that were prevalent in their cultures. And it was common practice for virgins to be the human sacrifices in those pagan cultures. Males in the Canaanite cultures were taught to be warriors and criminals from a young age. So no chances were taken.
Atheists are so quick to criticize without checking the facts. They just use the Canaanites as an excuse to justify their own sin. But they always forget that God spared the evil people of Nineveh because they repented and spared them for the sake of the children (Jonah 4:11). The Canaanite practices are revealed in the Ras Shamra, or Ugarit, clay tablets and they show the Bible was right about their corruption.
[…Psalm 84:11 plainly tells you that the O.T.God is the sun,Malachi 4:2 that most christians and apologetics claim is about Jesus also says he will be the SUN (not son)of Righteousness,your N.T.claims “Jesus is the Light of the World”of course the sun is the light of the world,you Harry worship a sun god.]
Worthless argument from you here since the Bible makes it plain these are figurative not literal. Another deceptive tactic used by atheists–take the symbolic, then claim the symbolic is literal to ding or slam Christianity.
[No contemporary historian or philospher of Jesus supposed time knows one thing about a miracle worker,crucified and resurrected from the dead Jesus]
Wrong again. There were 10 historical writings from different authors during the 1st century to the early 2nd century that confirmed Christ’s existence and all claims you mentioned. Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Phlegon, Thallus, and five more. They wrote in closer proximity to Jesus’ life (within 150 years) than the writers who wrote about Julius Caesar, Plato, Aristotle, and Herodotus (who wrote 1000 years or more after those men died). And more ancient manuscripts exist that tell about Jesus and the early church (close to 5700), that are in agreement with each other and can be compared for accuracy, than exist for the other historical figures. The non-biblical historical writers from that day attest to the fact Jesus died and his grave was guarded by Roman soldiers and that his disciples hid from the authorities. So where’s Jesus’ body. If the scared disciples were too cowardly to fight Romans and the Romans saw these Jews as a threat to the Roman Empire, all they had to do was open the tomb and display Jesus’ body, record it in the ancient historical records, and the claims of the disciples would have been squashed in a New York minute. The fact none of that happened proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the disciples were right. Jesus is risen indeed, much to your chagrin.
[you worship a SUN GOD developed by the Roman Empire and later the Roman Catholic church]
You again show that you lack historical or biblical knowledge. Constantine hated Christians and continued to persecute them when he formed his state church in the 300s AD, which was a cheap imitation of the true church. That’s historical fact. What you’re spouting is revisionist history.
[You also need to re-visit your O.T.you are completely wrong claiming Jesus tribal bloodline could come through the mother or by adoption or anyone not the Jewish father]
I have checked the Old Testament. God is ultimately in charge of preserving the bloodline since he prophesied about the Messiah before Jewish genealogies were even established. In Genesis 3:15, we have the very first Messianic prophecy. The Messiah would be determined through the seed of the woman. Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit with Jesus. She was told before she married Joseph that her son would be given “the throne of his father David” in Luke 1:32. So Mary knew the claim was legitimate and accepted it because she knew she was descended from David, praising God in that same chapter for regarding “the low estate of his handmaiden” and exalting “them of low degree.” All attempts to disqualify Mary as a legitimate line through which to have a legitimate heir to David’s throne were conjured up by those who hate the idea of having Jesus of Nazareth as both the legal and royal line to David’s throne. It’s simply a lie attempting to disqualify. It was God who determined David would have eternal heirs to the throne and God who ultimately determines who the legitimate heirs are.
You’re just so in love with your sin that you have to come up with all types of excuses to hate God so you can continue in your sin by denying your guilt or deny feeling guilty for them.
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Do i have to look up the scriptures that show you that only the father of a child can determine the tribal bloodline or will this paste do,it’s not from an atheist site.Jesus genaology could never,ever let him qualify to be the Messiah.
PASTE:
1.Genealogy
2.
3.
He was not descended from the House of David. According to Jewish law, tribal identification comes from the father’s side, being Jewish, from the mother’s side. According to Matthew 1, Joseph was descended from David (Although there are many contradictions between his genealogy there and that listed in Luke, however according to the same text, Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary, therefore Jesus was not related to Joseph, and not a descendant of King David.
Three answers to this problem are given in classic Christian sources:
a.The genealogy is that of Mary – This is inadequate, since if he is claimed to be the Jewish messiah, and according to Jewish tradition he must be descended on his father’s side, Mary’s genealogy is irrelevant.
b.He was adopted by Joseph -According to Jewish law, adoption does not change the status of the child. If an Israelite is adopted by a Cohen, (A descendant of Aaron the High Priest), the child does not become a Cohen, likewise if a descendant of David, adopts someone who is not, he does not become of the tribe of Judah and a descendant of David.
FROM ME>>Like i said before you have no idea what your Bible actually says,not only do you lack biblical research you also lack historical and scientific research.STOP LYING AND DECIEVING PEOPLE.
Jay
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Mary could have legitimate heirs because she was from David’s line, that’s why the angel told her that her son would be given the throne of his father David in Luke 1. All other theories claiming to be the “correct” way to determine lineage were lies made up in a desperate attempt to disqualify the genuine Messiah. Before any Jew existed or any line of succession to any throne of Israel, God determined that he would bring the Messiah through the seed of the woman, not the man (Genesis 3:15).
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You have 3 posts from me you haven’t posted on here yet,if you don’t have any more supposed answers that’s fine but at least be honest enough to put my posts on here.If you are busy and short of time or on a trip that’s fine but if not it’s been 3 days since i sent them.
Jay
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Jay,
If you were interested in an honest debate, I would’ve gladly posted your comments. But you increasingly show you have no interest in an honest debate, which doesn’t surprise me. First you imply you’re atheist, then you deny it and say I’m the one who’s lying. I came to the conclusion you just want to have an argument for the sake of having an argument, not to really contribute anything useful. And your 3 posts didn’t offer anything new to the debate since you kept trying to repeat and reiterate points you already made, so it was time to bring things to a close. I posted your previous comments without editing them in any way which showed I was willing to give you plenty of opportunities to make your points. I’ve been more than fair.
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I see you are not even letting the post i just sent show up on your site,Harry is a dis-honest deciever.Jay
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Jay,
As I said previously you’ve had plenty of opportunities to make your point but you kept digging a deeper hole for yourself. You basically fulfilled the scriptures I mentioned in Proverbs above. I stopped you before you made a bigger fool of yourself. That isn’t being deceitful, it’s being merciful so maybe you should thank me. 🙂
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Today was club week at my college and I was talking with some people about politics when I was challenged for trying to distinguish between the Roman Catholic Church and Christians. I had said the Roman Catholic Church resembled more of a government than a church. A young man who framed himself as an atheist blind sided me with the illiterate talking point. I wasn’t familiar with the argument and to me it seemed like a character attack and an attempt to slander. I really appreciate the research you have done and I will follow some of the clues you have left in your blog. I am not one to proselytize athests but I find they are theeatened by others faith. They have to tell you why believing in something more than man’s “wisdom” is foolish. What men perceive to be wisdom has been proven to be wrong countless times throughout history. The truths in the bible are evident all around us and hold true over a millennia. That is more than can be said about much of man’s wise men.
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Robert,
Glad I could be of help.
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